Update On Dr. Tsuji’s Hair Multiplication Trial In 2020
Hair Growth Compounds In Development – Update (8/30/20)
As mentioned in the original article, Dr. Tsuji also made an online presentation for the Adva Corporation on August 25, 2020. I attempted to attend the lecture but it seemed that residents outside of Japan were not permitted to join the Zoom conference. Luckily, our jovial Youtuber from Japan, Youngjet, attended the lecture and reported in his latest video upload. Here’s a synopsis of the information shared:
- Dr. Tsuji has tested 3 compounds for hair growth in mice
- One of the compounds outperformed minoxidil in the mouse study
- Tsuji said it would be 5 years before commercialization (likely classified as a drug)
Original Article
At last, we have an update on the ultra-popular Dr. Tsuji in 2020.
The latest update on Dr. Tsuji’s hair cloning treatment comes from a familiar face, “Youngjet” the Japanese Youtuber who creates hair transplant related videos and also runs a hair transplant consultation business. It was Youngjet who met Dr. Tsuji in 2019 at a medical conference in Japan.
Youngjet and Dr. Takashi Tsuji In 2019
During this brief interaction at the conference, Youngjet was told by Dr. Tsuji that the price for Tsuji’s/Organ Technologies’ hair cloning treatment would be around $200,000 to $350,000 per person and that clinical trials were soon to begin.
Tsuji Update 2020
For the first time since July 2019, Dr. Tsuji gave a public presentation on August 5, 2020. The lecture was originally supposed to take place at the Riken Center For Life Sciences in Kobe, Japan, but for precautionary measures it was held online via Zoom. The lecture was intended for graduate students of various Japanese University Life Science programs, yet some members of the Japanese public were permitted to attend. One member of the public who attended was Youngjet, our friendly Youtuber insider.
Today, Youngjet posted a new video to his channel detailing the Zoom lecture given by Dr. Tsuji on August 5th.
At around the 2 minute mark in the new video, Youngjet provides a recap of the progress Dr. Tsuji has made in the research and development of hair multiplication, beginning in 2011. He then comes to the year 2020 and paraphrases Dr. Tsuji’s words by saying, “After approval by the Commission for Specified Accredited Regenerative Medicine we will begin clinical trials in humans.” Youngjet then goes on to explain how the treatment is expected to establish safety confirmation and then become approved as a “self-paid” medical treatment within 3 years of the initial trial.
After watching this latest video, I asked Youngjet in a personal conversation, “Did Dr. Tsuji state in the Zoom presentation that he believes clinical trials will start in 2020?”, to which he replied, “Yes!”
Well, this is potentially very exciting news. It doesn’t mean that anything is guaranteed, but Youngjet is a credible man and has shown enough enthusiasm in hair cloning to attend Dr.Tsuji’s lecture just to ask him about it in person. There was longtime speculation that Tsuji’s trials would begin in 2020, but news has been scarce over the past year. Let’s hope that the stars do align and we hear a major announcement about the clinical trial in the next few months.
Additionally, Dr. Tsuji will be giving two more online lectures on August 24th and 25th. The lecture series is presented by the Adva Corporation and will feature talks on “Hair science front line – from the basics of innovation to beauty and health ” and “Overview of new products for fiscal 2020.” Follicle Thought will report back on any important information shared at these lectures. Be sure to check out Youngjet’s website and subscribe to his Youtube channel.
To all of the new visitors of this site, please check out the Ultimate Guide to Hair Regeneration article for a complete industry pipeline of new hair growth treatments and also visit and bookmark our Updates page for quick and important news briefs on all things hair restoration.
Posted in Hair Growth Treatment
Great news! Hopefully it’s like early computers where the price drops and the efficacy doubles each year. $300k is STEEP. At lease Beckham and Jason Statham can do it.
Thanks Biff! I believe that if/when Tsuji’s cloning treatment becomes approved and available the company will find a way to lower the cost fairly quickly. Manufacturers will probably try to out-bid each other to get part of the market share.
Only the rich can afford this cloning hair treatment sad but true
Thank you for the update! I’ve had a question about cloning which I’ve asked on a different site- how would someone who is a diffuse thinner (most females with AGA) successfully clone their hair if they don’t have any DHT resistant follicles? I’m in the earlier stages of AGA, however my brother and mother lack DHT resistant follicles.
Hi Em, thanks for visiting. Your question is a good one and has been asked several times, but so far I have not heard the opinion of a leading researcher on this topic. Crispr could be an option in the future to modify the cells, but this is likely far off. We could anticipate that people without a source of DHT resistant follicles could use the follicles they have and then continuously undergo maintenance as the cloned follicles became compromised. This is actually a pretty good option for someone with no other choices.
Beard hair cloning man And genital area cloning women diffüze stop
Thanks Tolga, I’m not sure if women would go for that idea ? but perhaps leg hair would be an alternative. I really don’t think it will come to that though, scalp hair will be enough to get things going.
Very costly treatment ?
I hope This treatment will also become cheaper in the coming time.
If it comes out, it will get cheaper.
Hi Em, this approach does appear to depend on the cloning of MPB resistant follicles. That said, there are other approaches that may not be so dependent e.g. Stemson, and Rapunzel Biosciences (to name but two). As soon as at least one company has a commercial solution then hopefully there will be lots of other companies entering the market. I know some of these claim to be working on solutions for people who have no follicles; so there is real reason for hope. The more competition, the quicker prices should come down.
Very costly treatment
you are very right !!! what’s that?!!! the people most in need of a cure are women first and not men !!! because we kes women will suffer more !!! how is this possible this mess !!! what a horror! men will have treatment but most importantly will not have
Ghizlane, do not despair! There are multiple treatments which will be unisex if/when they are released. For example: Histogen HSC, Breezula, DP cell therapies, any hair cloning technique.
Great news, but it’s so expensive. I’ll never be able to do it :/ plus I have really bad Seborrheic dermatitis, so I’m afraid that any results would be undone.. I’m afraid there will be nothing available to people like me that aren’t abundantly wealthy.
I’m going to borrow $300, 000 from Uncle Bill Gates.
Make it affordable…for us
Could you put in a good word with your uncle for ol H?
So 3 years and $300k, hopeful!
It would be a whole new world…
So with Dr. Tsuji, can nw7 be nw 1???
If the treatment works, yes it can.
Apparently, assuming you have at least one hair left. Though that’s theoretically, I think theyll find out how much that theory holds in the clinical trials where they’ll test its practicality. Fingers crossed and with time it’ll be significantly cheaper since only a hand full of people can afford $300,000 and they want the entire hair loss market.
Hello, Thanks again admin for your work ! I think that is in accordance with kyocera’s email about the expected authorization ! 🙂
Thank you MT, and yes that sounds about right MT! ??
it would need to come down most of the way from 300k before 99% of guys could afford it
Hi admin, this is really exciting news thanks for sharing!
So when it says “regenerative” does it mean that the cloned follicles that get injected/transplanted go on to regenerate your original follicles that have gone dormant. Or is it completely new follicles altogether? Or is it a mix of both?
Thanks!
I think the word regenerative is being used to describe this treatment as an example of regenerative medicine. I.e. stem cells are being used to regenerate and replace human tissue.
Wow, great news – as others have stated, hopefully the price will come down quickly as that price point isn’t feasible for most. Once things get to around the 50k mark with finance options (including transplantation, thats when we’ll start seeing it become widely accessible in my opinion. But it will probably be a good few years for it to get to that point, if it ever does that is.
Hope FT Admin gets complementary treatment (if he needs and desires it) for all the hard work he’s put in!
@Jamesjay
From what I’m aware they essentially clone your follicles so they can be transplanted back into your head. It solves the issue of limited donor hair.
Hey thanks for those kind words thinningontop! I would definitely appreciate a complimentary Tsuji/Organ Technologies treatment! We all could use it to some degree or will be able to in the coming years. I agree that the price sounds steep for now, but the biggest deal at the moment is for the treatment to become a reality – then once people are actually cloning their follicles and restoring full heads of hair the price is bound to drop and all can partake in it.
I remember telling some friends in 2015 that there was a revolutionary new company called Replicel and that hair loss would be solved in the next couple years, according to what the company was saying. Good to have hope, this is at least a couple years away from knowing if it even works (on humans), how many revs it will need and who knows how long till the cost is affordable for anyone else besides Bezos. Yoda will observe with interest but is more excited about treatment that are actually in Phase III or at have at least stared a clinical trial on humans. As always, appreciate the Admin for bringing us common folk the news! 🙂
Yoda if you thought replicel was the cure you were such a sucker. Replicel in my opinion is a fraud
I agree with yoda. Once this shows proof that it works and is safe then I’ll be excited. The 300k price tag is steep and it will take several years for that to come down. Good thing is that I definitely wont want to be the first one to get it if it becomes available in 2023. Let a thousand rich people do it first and see how it plays out for them after 5 yrs of the treatment. I’m more interested in Samumed and follica combo. If this can grow 50 to 100 hairs cm2 then that would get the majority to nw1 and n7s to fue transplant level to be low norwoods. Wishful thinking here 🙂
Im exsited just to hear an update .
Tsuji is the most to cure we have .
And when his work will be out , the way to replicate his technic will be faster then ever by other companys so i dont care about the price.
Cheers Roey ?
Very encouraging. One thing I’d particularly like to know is whether they will be able to tell if the follicles extracted for cloning are themselves permanently immune to the condition of MPB. I ask, as some people find that the horse shoe area which is left when the top and front go will gradually thin out over time. It will be important to be certain that the follicles that are cloned will not be subject to MBP at some later time. I’d be willing to pay quite a lot to get my hair back (though hopefully somewhat less than the 300K that has been suggested) but I’d first need some assurance that this is indeed a permanent cure.
If this is a permanent cure for thick nw1 then a 100k price tag would be fair. All the money on propecia, rogaine, supplements, fue will end being more than that for life. I just wish they did a trial already that proves it works. We are just assuming it works and it will be prime time in 2024. Once I see it on the evening news then you know we got something brewing.
Many were assuming they’d be hoping on a plane to Japan this year and getting this treatment, how’d that work out? Cautious, sober optimism for this being a potential, commercially available treatment down the road.
Obviously this isn’t going to be for us the “normal people” only for the super rich.
I personally would prefer to read something which is price wise for the everyone available, putting this on the market would “isolate” us the minimum/just above min. wage earning people.
They’re addressing only to the rich and famous, that’s their market…its sad.
Stefan, actually they’re likely doing the best they can with the current manufacturing options. Mass producing 10k individual hair follicle germs isn’t like making a pack of Jello 😉 Like others have said, the price which has been quoted is only a quote, and if it is correct, the price will still drop over time. The treatment becoming a reality is the accomplishment to make first, then the pricing segment can be improved.
I knew Dr Tsuji would end up coming through!! Good luck to the doc and his team.
Tsuji has come though? Where can I get the treatment and how much is it? 😉
Yoda doesn’t want to appear like a Dougy Downer however, one of my top (hair related) annoyances is young guys pinning their hopes on something that is so far out, not proven yet and waiting for the perfect cure that my be many years out, if ever is. There are decent options out there now, research and do what makes sense for you. If you continue to hold out for the holy grail you’ll have nothing to loose by precious years and hair. 🙁
That is pretty good advice Yoda and i agree with it.Young folks shouldn’t wait for a cure and hop on Finasteride and Minodixil ASAP. However, some of us (like myself) who the big 3 doesn’t help have cloning as our main hope. Far too many young people loose their when they could’ve ‘saved’ it with the big 3.
Hey 20, really sorry to hear that the big three doesn’t work for you. Have you consulted a good derm that specializes in hair loss? They are hard to find, most don’t know jack and hair surgeons likely will try to up-sell you. Here’s some clues that may or may not help. Yoda was lucky and responded to the mainstream treatments early on however the returns diminished with time. I had luck with various compounded minox solutions over the years, however the last eight became a battle again. Oral minox in a low dose, 5 mg, gave old Yoda the type of response he had as a young man early in his battle. You still need to inhibit the DHT, I had to switch to oral dut, added topical minox with dut about 6 months ago and hairfall is almost none. Oral meds should only be used after consulting with a physician, Yoda is not a doctor, he’s just some random bonehead on the internet. Hope this helps, I’ve been a young man loosing hair, I know it’s traumatic.
Hi Yoda, did you experience sides from fina?
I’m afraid to fuck up other areas – like man tits, lack of energy, Depression, lacking s drive.
When i see all this negative reports i am hesitant and dont want to solve one problem by creating various new ones…
@TwentyandBalding hopefully there will be a shampoo coming out soon AB-103 by Applied Technology that increases sulfotransferase in the scalp. This is the conversion of minoxidil to minoxidil sufate. Those who respond have a high eznymatic reaction to minoxidil in the scalp are the good responders to the treatment – no doubt FT has written about it, id check out any articles he has just incase I’ve got something wrong! Also how long was you on finasteride if you don’t mind me asking?
@Yoda I’ve heard of people having to increase minox usage over the years, but didn’t realise DHT inhibitors lose effectiveness to the same extent? One would hope this is genetic up-regulation of AR due to age, and not in retaliation to treatment with 5AR inhibitors. Also great to have an older vet on here! For a-lot of us young guys this can be very daunting, not just losing your hair but the idea of battling something like hairloss with treatments can be very scary – especially given the reputation some treatments have garnered for them selves.
In regards to hair cloning, have been reading up about L’Oreals methodology of cloning, surprised we haven’t heard more about it – saying that I’d think that may has something to do with them not having to make announcements in attempts to secure more funding. I could be way off the mark though. Hopefully we hear something soon.
Hope you all had a good weekend!
Did you catch this article thinningontop? https://folliclethought.com/loreal-shares-hair-cloning-poster/ And you’re right about L’Oreal not needing the publicity, even further, they are publicly traded company and are not able to just give random news scoops like other private comapnies.
Oh no, that slipped by me – I should have used the search function. Will give it a quick read now. In regards to them not being able to easily release information, the fact that they’re a publicly traded company didn’t even factor into my thinking – makes complete sense though.
@Stef, I’d imagine that has something to do with the culturing/multiplication of the new follicles. I also imagine there are also certain safety procedures which are carried out which contribute to this time frame, that’s just a guess on my part though.
Even better yet thinningontop, you can subscribe to the blog with the email signup on the right sidebar or bottom on mobile. Then you will be notified of new articles. Tons of good content on the site, scrolling the down the main page may bring more news you were previously unaware of ?.
Hi Thinning…what do you mean “older”? Let Yoda live in the delusion of still being young! 🙂
1.25 mg of fin worked well for me for 20 years then I had to up my game. I suspect you are correct, it’s age related, once I hit my 50’s (still young!) my genes kicked into high gear telling my hair to fall out at a faster pace. Agreed on Applied Tech’s potential shampoo, hopefully it gives minox a kick in the ass that oral gave me. Again, I was a responder to topical but it kept loosing it’s effectiveness despite increasing concentrations.
In regards to my comment to 20 about “hair surgeons likely will try to up-sell you” the guy that posted below about “cloning” is a good example. Not to pick a fight admin but I had direct experience with him. While I can’t comment on his surgical skills, not a fan of his marketing tactics to draw patients in.
Hey no worries Yoda, it sounds like you were a patient of the doctor and don’t have a great review to share. That’s normal, I think you did a good job of getting your point across without getting nasty.
Yeah admin, I held back in respect to you, preferring that posters don’t get involved in endless debates . In this case, it’s really not necessary, all one has to do is go to his website and see some of the “treatments” he’s peddling. I’m sure the well informed readers of this blog would draw their own (accurate) conclusions.
Did anyone else watch the YouTube link? The guy said it takes 2 years for the newly grown hair roots to be transplanted. Does that mean even if you pay / get the treatment it takes an additional 2 years??
Im also curious on this point. Hard to interpret his translation.
Stef I will seek further clarification on that.
Thanks! Let us know what you find out there
Stef, I did hear back from Youngjet today. Apparently, he mixed up his English slightly on that quote. He meant to say that the technology to produce hair follicles took 2 years (2016-2018) to develop, not to be transplanted.
After 20+ years in the field of hair restoration / hair transplant surgery, and hearing all the news and promises over the years on “hair cloning” delivering an unlimited supply of hair, I’m always cautiously optimistic when I hear these reports. The good news is that there are many smart people working on hair cloning treatments (like Stemson / Alexey Terskikh here doing iPScell research) in the US and others around the world. Fingers-crossed for our patients who need/want this therapy! ? – Sincerely, Dr Alan J Bauman, MD, ABHRS
Thanks for checking in Dr. Bauman, we’re all hoping for it!
I’m cautiously excited! That said, I’m curious as to how it might (key word) work.
1) How will it work with diffuse thinners? If the cloning process “merely” gives you an unlimited hair supply for your transplant, you could theoretically get a transplant with your cloned hair, but then be subject to shockloss, as well as the loss that comes as your native hair continues to fall out. Tsuji’s treatment is obviously gold (if it works) but if it doesn’t do anything to secure your current hair, you might still be fighting a losing battle.
2) What about the language barrier? If you flew to Japan to get the procedure, will you be doing everything (consultation, asking questions, explaining what you want etc) through a translator? There’s no guarantee that the doctors or surgeons will be fluent in English.
3) Will the doctors or surgeons have to be trained in transplant techniques? My understanding is that hair transplant doctors have to undergo lots of training (well, the decent ones), and they presumably get better with time. I’m guessing that Tsuji’s team are all scientists who don’t perform hair transplants, so how would that work? Would your operation be carried out by one of them? Or would they train an existing hair transplant surgeon?
4) Will they be able to confirm that your donor hair is going to last? Surely they wouldn’t clone a hair unless they were sure that it was a “good” one? It would be devastating to pay all that money and have all those hairs implanted, only for them to fall out agani.
For the record, I’m not being negative about Tsuji’s treatment. Again, I’m excited! Far more than any of the other things on the horizon. I’m just starting to wonder about the practical applications.
Paul, you bring up a good point which I’ve tried to convey in the past as well.
1) Hair cloning is not an optimal treatment for people with thinning hair. Also, it’s not a complete treatment for people with just receding hairlines for example because like you mention there is a need to preserve existing hair. Continuously implanting cloned hair into your scalp as hair is lost is an option, but not ideal or practical. This is why I’ve been an advocate for other therapies in development, they are important too and will be necessary for most people.
As for your other questions, I think they will be answered in time. It’s very likely that qualified people will be conducting a procedure of this caliber. Any area doing medical tourism will have some good bilingual staff on hand at a resort or recommended hotel.
Agreed Admin. Hairclone, Tsuji’s DP-therapy and Histogen are good options in the future to preserve existing hair and/or treat diffuse thinners.
Hi Paul, I wouldn’t dwell too much on details as yours, although I understand all your questions. Tsuji’s method gives you unlimited supply, so theoretically it doesn’t matter how much hair you have left, so should not have to save current hair. His IPSC-therapy is applicable for even the most severe forms of hair loss (citation) and their goal is to solve every form of hair loss.
Language barrier is the least of my concerns. Transplant techniques will be solved, because they must be solved. If you look up the famous 2016 HLT interview, you will see that OrganTech already addressed these challenges back then. If the aesthetics are not perfect, they won’t sell anything. They could also sell only the service of cell expansion and the actual operation is made by experienced hair surgeons (this seems the most plausible to me).
I think the industry will provide solutions, and the team at OrganTech will think of every detail. There’s a good dozen of people working on it for many years now, imagine the thousands and thousands of hours of research and development.
Tsuji is years away we are talking about it’s on the market now (no offence )it’s not been tested not even approved by regulators.
Hairclone- always find excuses funding was big dragging once funding is ready they have something else I hope something come from Samumend or Kintor these companies are pushing through phases, still we don’t know the outcome and I am waiting for next FT update which is about something around corner
Ok Kapil, by the way HairClone has only mentioned the virus as a recent delay. That’s pretty reasonable in my opinion. HairClone did offer the world a chance to test out their tech much earlier by investing in a crowdfund and the majority said no thanks.
Does stemson still require a transplant the end? Or do they just inject into your head?
I believe Stemson is working on a type of injection, though, it’s totally plausible that Organ Technologies/Tsuji is developing some sort of injection device for this as well. They talk about hair follicle germs which are small than follicles so likely will not be placed like a traditional hair transplant.
Hi Admin,
I think OrganTech fully developed devices/technologies in 2012 already, as per their website:
2012: Patent published on a transplantation method for regrown hair
2012: Patent published on a method to control hair color
Maybe one of the users can find the patent online somewhere, would be very interesting to see. If they will use this or if Kyocera is developing new devices, I don’t know.
As far as I understand, OrganTech is using some kind of gel to “hold” the cells, not a scaffold. Which makes it more realistic for a simple injection, not a transplant per se.
As per Stemson, it is not an injection in my opinion, but rather an “implant”. It is a tube with a length of 1 mm and a widht of 0,3 mm, which will be implanted. It holds the cells in a tiny conainer, which will eventually develop into follicles. The tube will guide the hair in the right direction. The technology was develped by an Austrian 3-D-Print start-up, and is really fascinating.
Here’s a great video of lead researcher PhD Antonella Pinto on Stemson’s technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvzlQv7isxc
Stemson is really competitive, they have a lot of expertise in every important field of their mission: technology/devices, cell expansion, stem cell biology, immunology, surgery/aesthetics, business development, funding, partnerships. They are certainly at the same level as OrganTech.
Thanks for the information Ben, very interesting and comprehensive. I would say at those specs I still consider Stemson as an injection rather than a transplant placement, but we will see how it goes. I imagine they are creating a device which will be pushed by the thumb rather than placed with forceps. A width of .3mm sounds too small for a human to hold with forceps and could be damaged by forceps.
Hi Admin, I disagree a little. An injection is rather liquid (Tsuji’s germ I imagine), but here is an actual synthetic particle (biodegradable though) that needs to be implanted. I also assume one needs to implant one after the other in order to guarantee correct placement, you cannot inject many of these tubes at the same time.
But you are totally right, this cannot be placed by hand and forceps. There must be some robotic/automatic.assistance. And I’m sure you can do big surfaces pretty quickly, you won’t need hours for the procedure like in an standard FUE.
I imagine that this will be a simple procedure: instead of taking the follicle from the back of the head (FUE) you just transplant the cloned cells respectively the tube (“lolli-up”) into the bald areas with a newly developed device – something like a nailing machine. This would be minimally invasive due to the very small size of the tubes. Additionally there’s no bloody extraction of your own hair.
What I find very clever at StemsonTx is that there are 2 hair surgeons in the advisory board. This guarantees aesthetically pleasing results and will be a gateway to the IAHRS and ISHRS and other hair transplant surgeons.
StemsonTx is our best card in the deck. We are lucky that there are two major players competing with each other.
No prob, Ben. I understand your point now. For these definitions I think Organ Technologies and Stemson’s methods will equate to the same technique. I believe that the gel with germ cells will have to delivered one by one into the scalp in different areas. I don’t see how there could be bolus injections made because there’s no way for the hair to naturally grow at the right angle or migrate in that case. It may have been practical for a mouse study, but I don’t think that technique will work on humans paying several hundred thousand $ for it. Time will tell, though. Thanks for sharing good research and insight.
stemson human trials should begin in 2021 !! we hope well
I can tell you are from Austria 🙂
Tsuji won’t be doing the fue style. It will be most likely injections all over the scalp. This wont cause shock loss. Fue ht is more invasive. Tsuji will need to inject these hair germs accurately so they grow in right direction. This will have to be 100% solved.
Mjones When you’re talking about injections I get concerned I’m not fan of injections I need them to actually clone a follicle then transplant it to my bald areas.
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admin I don’t understand why you delete the comments !! and leave comments of people who say false things !!! happy you !!
twist40. Because we are tired of guys like you coming in to vent your emotional frustration with the same old thing and repeating the same old thing over and over again. This website is for information if you believe or think that nothing will ever come in, then don’t come in, if you think they will come in 10 years, then don’t come back in 10 years.
admin, i hope that the clinical trials in people will be in this year. But right now I’m interested in “Hairclone” waiting to be pronounced and in Tsissuse. sincerely I would be more excited in these last . Thank you for the information.
soul look, maybe we didn’t understand each other !! in fact I’m with you …. the message was related to people who report false news here on the forum …. they are regularly denied with updates … like mjones that also reports false news on the cost of cloning !!!
For clarity, torezar, I appreciate you viewing the site and remaining optimistic. The comment which was removed involved you trying to stir things up with another commenter but your argument had false information. I try to keep the back-and-forth stuff in the comments to a minimum anyways, but when there is inaccurate information causing the argument, it’s a waste of time. I hope you can understand that.
Soul, thanks for your continued support. I have shared a recent update on HairClone on July 16, I hope you saw it. When there is news on TissUse I will surely share it with you all, the companies are still working towards their goals to get it going.
Hey, Admin, I did read it. Sorry I didn’t explain myself properly, I meant I hope “Hairclone” announce some news themselves soon.
PS. I want to start with Ru58841 these days.
Thanks again!
No worries Soul, I’m sure some readers here have dabbled in RU, perhaps they can offer some commentary about it for you.
torezar your comment was inaccurate and it was leading to drama with another commenter, is that correct? In your comment you said that Organ Technologies’ price was $180k-$250k and you asked the other commenter where they got the idea for $300k. An estimated cost of $300k is reasonable because the numbers received from Youngjet were 20M – 40M Yen which equals $188k – $376k USD. If your facts are correct I leave the comments up, no problem. Let’s keep up a fun community here.
I wonder if they will use the artas robot to make the recipient site incisions and put the follicles in the incisions I heard that’s a new feature I’m not really an expert on Artas robot. but that would be cool. And Hopefully they will do lateral slit technique the other technique I’m not a fan of.
Regarding Tsuji, as far as I was aware they were going to have to be transplanted back in. Not injected, I may have this wrong though.
If I’m recalling correctly, Stenmore will be injections – the way they’re dealing with how the hair grows back is creating a custom ‘scaffolding’ to make sure the hair grows back correctly, not quite sure how this would work – but it sounds interesting.
Maybe this comment is little off-topic, but which one of the therapies, that are currently in development, will give me nw1 from nw3?(without tsuji) Is there any? And which one of the comming therapies will hold the results longer than others ?
You’d probably have to combine one (or more) of the upcoming therapies with an FUE to get from NW3 back to NW1. Growing strong healthy hair at the hairline is a legit task. It’s difficult to say which one will hold the results longer than others until they are released and used by many.
Thanks admin for answer, but can any of the coming tharapies restore nw3 to nw2? And why you dont have kintor in your hair growth clinical therapies pipeline?
We don’t know yet until we see widespread use of these treatments and many results photos to know exactly what they’re capable of. Just as with current treatments some people have remarkable results from time to time. Kintor will be on the list soon, they are a newcomer.
Torezar I didnt make up any prices about hair cloning. Tsuji himself said it will be in the 150 to 300k range. Why you name dropping me as a liar haha. Come on man…. 🙂
Man, I know this is just a forum but I scratch my head reading some of these comments on price estimates, “which treatment will work for me” and the like. At the end of the day nobody knows, it’s all just speculation based on very little information. I know this Youngjet fellow has dispensed some supposed info on pricing, do we definitively know what this means? Has Tsuji gone on record with this same info? This reminds me of the internet things where you have to guess what color the dress is. Some people seem to read what they want the situation to be (time frames, success, price) without any real supporting data.
There’s also the possibility that a development could happen to lower the price before it ever hits the market. It’s not a set in stone thing even though we are basically certain that Dr. Tsuji said it in 2019.
Could it be that he was indicating it would cost 20M – 40M Yen which equals $188k – $376k to treat a patient in the clinical trials? I’m not speculating, this is a question. It would seem logical to me given the high cost per patient of clinical trials. I just don’t remember seeing anything definitive from Tsuji directly or “on the record” that he stated the commercially available product would “initially” cost this much. Did I miss something and this is a 100% fact from Dr. Tsuji?
I hope that it will be affordable ☺️
Yoda has no feelings one way or the other on Tsuji. Hopeful for the future, not sitting around waiting for it or giving it much thought except when on here nor thinking it will never happen. Now Yoda will prognosticate on a time frame with no firm evidence, for commercial availability, IF it comes to fruition. My guess is sometime during the term after the next US presidential. By next election I don’t mean the current 2020 election…I mean the next in 2024 and the subsequent term ending in 2028. *Just a guess, opinion, not to be presented as a fact.
Good question Yoda, everyone definitely thinks that the price was estimated for once the treatment is approved, but I can double check with Youngjet just to clarify.
While this Youngjet fellow might be credible, I’d be more interested in reports that came from on the record interviews with precise Japanese to English translation. I feel like Youngjet just kind of catches Dr. Tsuji in hallway chats, maybe I’m wrong, as indicated I don’t really dive deeply into these details as I feel this treatment is a long way off.
Oh alright, the price estimation over the past year has only been from Youngjet. It’s a reasonable report, some readers are more caught up on it than others. I don’t think of it as a big deal at the moment, prices of new treatments always go down.
hello admin that’s exactly what I meant in the past message …. that there is still no security on the price … I have read various prices … that’s why I left that comment …
Okay, no worries torezar.
For those who’ve not followed along the Tsuji saga, there is an interview with the Organ Technologies CEO from 2016 that remains one of the best sources of direct information. It’s a little dated—they anticipated 2018 clinical trials would lead to commercial availability in 2020, which as you know, you know, you know—but otherwise, it’s an interesting listen from an optimistic yesteryear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLvyrJW-JIk
I agree on the price coming down over time Admin, if this even ever sees the light of day. I fall back to my point that the exorbitant pricing being bantered around COULD be the price to treat patients during the clinical trial phases(s). This is something I have experience with and would make perfect sense to me. Problem is we really don’t know, while Mr. Jet is something of a conduit of info that people are manic for, we aren’t sure how accurate it is for a number of potential reasons. In the Hope department, we want this to succeed, not take another decade and that the prices being discussed either come down rapidly or there is a miscommunication from Tsuji to Y.Jet to us. 🙂
I agree prob should not get hung up on the price tag. The focus now should be on figuring out something that works and if it does, the next step could be how to make it accessible to the general population. The procedure may be expensive during the testing phase and perhaps can be reworked for better efficiency and economies of scale later.
I’m definitely more intrigued by Organ Technologies now than I was 2 weeks ago. I never got too excited when some people thought their treatment would be on the market in 2020. I also thought things were quiet to begin a trial in 2020, but now with Dr. Tsuji allegedly still stating that trials are imminent to begin as of August 2020, they’ve got my attention. I’m interested to see what happens over the next 6 months or so, I hope they come through with a trial.
Hi Admin, I’m sorry I probably overlooked it in this jungle of information and misinformation. But where exactly does Tsuji say “August 2020”?
Can you help me out?
Hey Ben, my statement in other words means “during a lecture in August 2020, Dr. Tsuji is still saying trials are imminent.”
One answer in the video is particularly interesting, Q: From your research, how long does it take for a primordium to grow into a fully functional hair follicle after being delivered to the scalp?
A: To answer this question… we have completed only a small number of clinical cases until now, therefore it is still difficult for us to provide you with a specific time period. However, while the current FUT Therapy requires 3 to 6 months before attaining the expected results, the results of our limited cases have indicated that our technology will also attain the expected result in a similar time period.
= Proof they have indeed been testing in humans and human scalps, albeit a limited number of cases, going back as early as 2016—what they know from those cases is comparable to FUT Therapy. The main takeaway is the admission that they have been testing in humans. There ARE people amongst us with Tsuji cloned follicles.
Why? They always tested in mice.
That is only your assumption.
Read the answer closely. The results of our limited cases *have indicated* the technology is comparable to FUT therapy (3-6 months). — That answer has been derived from observation as it relates to the human scalp. That’s not mouse skin. Mice only took 2 weeks (or 21 days) to grow the HF germs. Tsuji already published that in 2012.
How is that proof?
Seems like another case of “blue dress or white dress” to me.
The question is about how long it takes to grow in a scalp.
Part of the answer is “the results of our limited cases have indicated that our technology will…”
If that is not proof that they have results from a limited number of cases indicating how long it takes to grow, what exactly is it? It’s not mice—they grew hair in a matter of weeks.
It could be he’s talking about human tissue in vitro (he says “we are currently conducting a human-tissue study”) or that he means ‘we suspect it will be so’ and these ‘limited cases’ are not actually case studies, just a mistranslation.
“Proof they have indeed been testing in humans and human scalps”
There is zero proof of that, the fact that he said it ‘indicated’ it would take the same time as FUT would point to it being mice with human tissue grafted. Even if mice grow hair in a matter of weeks, for all we know they’d done a FUT procedure on one which produced results around the same time.
You can’t take a translated interview which doesn’t explicitly say what you’re claiming as proof that they’ve done something.. thats an assumption, not proof. The idea that they’d of done this in 2016, yet we’re now in 2020 and it hasn’t been announced in some form seems a little nonsensical to me.
I’d prefer if you’re correct and I’m wrong, but it seems unlikely to me.
The interview is with Koh-ei Toyoshima (Researcher at Organ Tech),
His answer when asked about cell amplification” “as I mentioned earlier we are still in research for this, therefore there is only a small number of human cases.”
His answer when asked about donor follicles: “we are currently conducting a human-tissue study using dermal tissues collected from the back of AGA patients’ heads”
See I read his words as proof of testing in humans. But you tell me they only use mice. So that’s that.
Toccata:
That is amazing news!
This interview is from 2016. They should’ve learned a lot by now.
The pricing is the negative.
Anything on way-316606?
Hi Andre, by the end of the year there will be an update.
@FolliceThought how do you know this?
This is what I’ve heard D1.
@Follicle Thought sounds promising!
We’re hoping so D1 ??
Founder, Author & Nutritionist,
Jessica Sepel
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Gina, 36, from Sydney, said that she had always had thick and shiny hair, but when she became hypervomitant, while carrying her first child, her hair began to fall out in an unprecedented way.
And Gina continued: “During pregnancy, I suffered from an uncomfortable health condition that results in the placenta secreting a large amount of the” HGG “hormone throughout pregnancy, which caused me to lose a lot of hair, and after four months of giving birth, I became almost bald.
Desperate to find a solution, the mother asserted that she resorted to all kinds of treatments, including costly shampoos for hair growth, diets and various nutritional supplements, but all of those attempts were unsuccessful.
During her continuous search on the Internet, Jenna found what she wanted in the account of Australian nutritionist Jessica Sybil, in which she recommends taking “G Health and Hair Energy” tablets to restore lost hair within several months.
The tablets contain many components to strengthen the hair, including zinc, iodine and seaweed, which all work together to restore strength and volume to hair and support natural hair growth.
After taking the tablets on a daily basis for two months, Gina was astonished by the results she obtained, as she felt the difference and her hair began to grow again, and within twelve months of taking the tablets, her hair returned to normal, according to the British newspaper Daily Mail.
If Yoda ever gets pregnant he’ll have to give these tablets a try! 😉
Thanks Ahmed, I appreciate you always looking to share obscure and breaking news for hair growth treatments. This vitamin seems a bit pedestrian, but a good effort nonetheless.
Can anyone tell after how much time Finasteride starts slowing hair loss ?
If you mean how long until you see some results India, at least three months. Then over the next two years you’d probably see incremental improvement if you are a responder. Good Luck!
Admin, long time visiting this site but first time poster thank you for all your work. Just a quick question, do you think we will get any update from the upcoming conferences on the 24&25th ? Also I was curious if anyone has heard anything regarding the cost of Dr. Tsuji other two treatments other than the hair cloning or is that likely to cost around 180-360k too ?
Hi Paul_ire what other two treatments? Do you have a link?
John doe, I read it on the organ website.
http://www.organ-technol.co.jp/en/business/hair-follicle-regeneration/
“We have developed several distinct hair regeneration technologies over the years. In the first generation technology, dermal papilla cells in which this enzyme is not expressed are collected from active follicles, mainly at the back of the head, and then cultured. Dysfunctional papilla cells in the bald areas are replaced with the new ones, allowing healthy follicles to grow in their place. Our second-generation technology involves using an original technique called the organ germ method to develop follicle progenitor tissue, or germ, from epithelial stem cells and dermal papilla cells collected from healthy follicles, which are then transplanted into the bald areas. In the third generation technology, hair follicles and skin are engineered from induced pluripotent stem cells: this approach benefits patients with congenital alopecia, who lack healthy follicles, or severe baldness, who have almost none. These three generations of hair regeneration technology have paved the way for a new healthcare paradigm in which all types of hair loss are treatable”
Oh thanks! Sounds like progress or evolution but not actual like 3 different treatments. …. But I wish they have 3 different treatments 🙂 … they have the knowledge and equipment.
My apologies, when I read the document I thought that they are working on three different routes/treatments.
Hey @admin – Any updates coming through from Follica?? I feel like this is actually a pretty promising and realistic hair treatment that’s not too far away.
Stefano, I couldn’t agree more with you.
I do not understand the excessive Tsuji hype. Ok, unlimited donor hair is definitely a huge plus but a HT is always the last option after everything else fails. We need something that stops hairloss and reactivates dormant follicles without nasty side effects. Tsuji is not!
Anyway, Follica, AB-103 and perhaps a functional cosmetic (that may be released towards the end of this year) are likely not pipe dreams.
I understand the hype, just think it’s a premature given where Tsuji is in the process, many years away if it eventually even proves out.
Yoda I disagree with you. Tsuji will start trails this year (we already know that) and I believe the full release will come no later then 2024. It’s Japan not a western country with strict regulations like the FDA or the European regulatory. Tsuji has been working on this since 2011 I think from 2011 to no later then 2024 is a realistic end point guess.
That’s all well and good Woof, however as of today there haven’t been clinical trials on humans to see what the real potential is and what the real timeline will be. Most of what is on the internet is speculation off little tidbits of translated news. Sure 2024 is possible, anything is possible one way or the other. Fingers crossed.
Hi Stefano, nothing from Follica at the moment. I think they are on course to begin their phase 3 trial before the year’s end. We could see a press release on that anywhere from tomorrow until early December if the trial does in fact start this year. I would caution people, though, to keep their expectations of Follica realistic. The treatment could definitely bring a synergistic effect and higher ceiling to other regimens but on its own I do not expect a game changer.
MRKA I’m a NW 5 and I’m only 23 I’ve been a NW 5 for 3 years because I’ve been on fin I can’t get a transplant though because I’m younger then 25 because My hair pattern hasn’t fully shown itself and I may not have enough donor hair. I talked to many hair transplant doctors that’s what they told me. And I go through days of extreme depression and anxiety I wear a hat everytime I leave the house. Hair cloning would give me my hair back and I’d be happy again. i think the passion or hype people have for dr tsuji hair cloning is a good thing gives us hope. And also if Follica can restore my hair with out hair cloning as just a temporary thing until I can afford hair cloning then I would be happy and also I want Follica to give me my hair back back because right it looks terrible at a NW 5 I’m literally stuck I can’t do anything except look at in the mirror and keep taking Finasteride.
Woofy, not sure what you want to tell me.
Surely, having more options is a plus.
But Tusji is not the holy grail…for obvious reasons.
The danger in general is that people overlook current treatment options due to exzessive hope on a ‘miracle’ treatment in the future.
If that fails you are thrown into emotional no mans land.
Having hope is good but exzessive hype surely is not, especially if there is a risk that the treatment never hits the market.
MRKA “Tsuji is not the holy grail for obvious reasons” that’s just a stupid comment no offense. And “people over look current treatment On hope of a miracle cure” What are you talking about? most people get on Finasteride if it bothers them so much. But the current treatment suck.
Relax Woofy…for you it might be the holy grail
But its not for the millions who are about to start losing hair soon. That should be crystal clear.
I was referring to them in general and not you.
I read you are not using minox. Am I right?Did you ever try the minox foam?
Are you at least going to try it with soon to be released AB-103 in combo with needling?
MKRA “Tsuji is not the holy grail for obvious reasons” I think I understand what you’re talking about? It wouldn’t be a holy grail because of People who have dupa and the only true holy grail would be gene editing. But for the most majority of AGA sufferers tsuji is the holy grail.
Hey Woof, sorry to hear that you’re experiencing such aggressive hair loss at an early age. I understand, I was there but managed to get on treatments that have saved most of it, almost 40 years later. Have you consulted a derm that SPECIALIZES in hair loss? Most don’t know jack. Are you using topical minoxidil? If so, you might want to consider a higher concentration, oral, dut, etc. I truly believe if you have androgenic alopecia you can save your hair and even get some re-growth. Just depends you doing the research, and what you decide are the treatments that are best for you. Good Luck, as my hair loss hero Dr. Lee used to say…”Keep it Growing”!
Hey yoda I have gone to many hair doctors and I’m on Finasteride Been on it now for 3 years, it’s worked very well and I’m happy. But I might try derma pen. Minoxidil I’m not really a fan of I tried the minoxidil drips and my scalp started to burn so I stopped.
There are more treatments out there Woof, you just have to find the right doctor. You might see one that prescribes low dose oral minox, it turned back the clock almost 10 years for Yoda, after loosing ground on topical, which I was on for close to 30 years (and still am, high concentration with other goodies). Oral Minox should only be used under a doctor’s supervision. Yoda has boarder line BP so I got a double benefit at 10mg, however doses between 2.5 to .5 mg are probably just as effective for hair without any sides.
@woofy, if you are already NW5 there is no way you get full coverage or even NW 2 with medication alone.
The only thing that would really improve your aesthetic hair situation is hair transplantation. But that wont come cheap AND requires a lot of donor hair.
There will be a hair cure in the next years, there are huge and famous companies working towards that goal. Our chances of having a full cure in a few years have never been so high. But there wont be a cure within 2 years that is affordable. You have to keep this in mind.
Do not waste your precious young years being depressed. Thats the worst thing you can do.
At this point finasterid wont do much to improve your situation, it will only mess with your hormones. DHT is a very underresearched hormone. The more I studied about it, the more Pubmed articles I read, the more I realized how russian roulette its sytemisc inhibition is (topical gels dont make much of a difference and rather mess with your hormones in your brain)
I did take finasteride for 4 years, (I stayed NW 1,5 – 2, was only slowly receding). So it worked in that regard. But everything else was worse. I had less strength in the gym, a worse sex life, and it made it so much harder to study for medical school.
So I quit. Minoxidil never did much for me, yet I stick to it and Nizoral but my hairline is clearly and rapdly receding now.
Dont let your shrinking follicles dictate your mood and life. Just buzz it off. If one of your primary concerns regarding hairloss is losing attractivity in the eyes of women, then that is definitely correct: Obviously most women prefer a man with a full head of hair but I’ll tell you without undue conceit: i know a thing or two about very attractice women and models etc
Super hot women do not care so much about your hair as you do, they rather look for self confident and funny and stylish men. Men that are interesting and achieve something in one way or another.
Just ask yourself what kind of man do you want to be? And how to get there. And then work ur butt off. Just dont waste your time being lost in thought.
Make the best of the life you got right now and buy the freaking cure when its released in the 2020s
.
JJA, so much misinformation in your post I don’t know where to begin. I’ll just sum it up by saying you shouldn’t present your opinions as facts and that everybody reacts differently to meds…results, sides, etc. Blanket statements aren’t helpful.
“topical gels dont make much of a difference and rather mess with your hormones in your brain” your talking absolute nonsense, developments on NLC vehicles are extremely promising. People are even having success with basic liposomal vehicles for dutasteride. Destroying scalp and follicular DHT but only reducing serum levels at 15%..
While oral fin is not ideal, if it is tolerable until these new topical vehicles come out then it still worthwhile for him.
Yeah, but there are many, most probably the majority, that have been on oral anti androgens (fin, dut) for years with little to no sides. I’ve also been on topical (attack from both angles) that are not liposomal and never had any appreciable sides. Does this mean everybody will have a Yoda experience? No, but the data supports that it’s more probable than the “everyone gets sides theory” that gets propagated on the internet.
The WAY research could be a big deal
I agree with yoda. Jay Jay what you say makes total sense and he shouldn’t spend his youth depressed. However, telling him to stop treatments is ridiculous. He needs to stay on course and preserve what he has . If follica and SM comes out and provided 30cm2 regrowth this could give him good coverage. Add an fue and toppik and he can go out without wearing a hat again. Some people take hair loss very bad. He can still be the best guy he can be while treatment . I suggest his takes the big 3. Hit the gym. Buzz down the hair, grow a cool beard, make good money and dress nice. Yrs you’ll still be bald but youll look 100x better and feel better knowing you are being the best you can be. Plus women want a cool dude who will take care of them plain and simple. Admin I apologize for my language but if you can plow a woman good she won’t give a f%$” if you are bald. Trust me bro! I see it all the time.
Old guys rule MJ! 🙂 I wholeheartedly agree and that guys need to do the research…there are more FDA approved (off label) treatments besides fin and Rogaine.
For anyone interested, I’ve been reading a lot of literature regarding viability of dutasteride loaded lipid vehicles as it seems that it could be efficacious due to it not needing to be applied more than once every 10 or so days. This one really has cause my eye:
It’s from 2017, and a follow up research paper/study has not been carried out but I’m still rather confident in it. For those who aren’t interested in crawling through the paper, I’ll highlight the key points that I took from it:
“The hypothesis of this project was, that modifying the surface of DST-NLCs with chitosan conjugated with different types of fatty acids will enhance the stability of nanoparticle, delivery and safety of dutasteride therapy. Encapsulating dutasteride in the lipid nanoparticle system for dermal application and incorporation of fatty acid as a carrier may provide a synergistic effect between drug and the carrier with respect to the anti-androgenic activity, due to the presence of the fatty acid, promoting cell growth, especially with lauric acid which has higher 5α-reductase inhibitory activity than stearic acid (Liu et al., 2009). At the same time, having positively-charged nanoparticles for topical delivery, due to coating with chitosan oligomer-stearic or lauric acid, should produce slower drug release and retention at the targeted area, especially the hair follicles, reducing systemic effects and cytotoxicity on the hair follicle dermal papilla cells.”
DST-NLC = Dutasteride Nanostructured Lipid Carriers
CSO-SA = chitosan oligomer stearic acid
CSO-LA = chitosan oligomer lauric acid
“General conclusions:
The main aim of this study has been achieved. DST-NLCs coated with CSO- SA or CSO-LA were successfully formulated and characterised; NLCs were stable and showed enhanced local drug delivery, reduced systemic exposure, slower drug release and reduced cytotoxicity.”
I’m considering contacting this researcher to ask a few questions – as she states at the end of the article.
“There are three main experimental studies to be considered for the future:
A. Study of the reductase inhibition activity of DST-NLCs, uncoated and coated with CSO-SA or CSO-LA, using rat microsomal suspension
B. Study of the hair growth promoting activity using an animal model (in vivo) of DST-NLCs, uncoated and coated with CSO-SA or CSO-LA
C. Formulation development for a commercially-acceptable product”
Ideally I’d like to know if this research is ongoing or planned, I’d also like to get her opinion on a liposomal dut which is already available and seems to be getting results from people who are also doing serum blood testing (LC/MS/MS) and seeing stable low levels over long periods, others doing high pressure liquid chromatography, here is one of their results:
Serum DHT with no treatment = 645 pg/ml
Scalp DHT with no treatment = 6.49 pmol/g
Scalp DHT on Topical Dutasteride = 1,74 pmol/g
Serum DHT on Topical Dutasteride = 512 pg/ml
If anyone would like to read the full paper and FT Admin is okay with me sharing I’d be more than happy to do so.
Hope you’re all having a good week!
I really appreciate Yoda and MJ for repeatedly reminding people not to lose time and hair waiting for “miracle cure”. It is very important to know that the options we are having presently to treat hair loss are decent. I just recently turned 20 year old (Was suffering from AGA since late 18’s) and I tried almost every possible thing from nutritional supplements to hair oils and when nothing worked I finally resorted to Finasteride which proved to be one of the best decisions of my life. I also did a lot of research on it and almost all doctors recommended it and told not to worry about side effects. Side effects due to finasteride are very rare and even if someone experienced side effects after some time they will go away even after continuing the use. The panic of side effects are caused by only those 2% of people out of 98% otherwise millions of men use the drug all around the globe. According to pal JayJayAustria’s logic Finasteride should have been disapproved years ago by FDA but that is not the case. After proper consultation with the doctor one should resort to the treatments available. There is nothing wrong to believe that we are on the verge to cure baldness but we are not certain when so until then you must save your money, time and hair and try something which is clinically proven such as Finasteride, Dutasteride and Minox etc and when the cure is out you would be happy with your decision then.
Kay ,you are totally wrong, they are many people who got destroyed by finasteriede I’m one among them.finasteride side effects occur in some people and they are irreversible mostly sexual side effects.
They’re not irreversible for the majority, it’s a minute fraction that is causes epigenetic changes in.
Joe, since you had sides nobody should take finastseride? Interesting logic or lack thereof.
Long term systemic inhibition of 5AR can result in some nasty long term effects due to methalyation of certain genes caused by long term exposure – its an epigenetic issue. Also meta-anylsis has concluded that the percentage of people who have side effects is much higher than merck presented.
Thinning, you present your statements as facts that affect all who take fin/dut. While big words are impressive, can you post the credible sources/studies that back this up? Exactly how high are the % of people that have suffered sides and the source of this claim? I will be interested as I have been on fin for 20 years then dut for an additional five and haven’t suffered these issues, physical, blood tests or otherwise. The only side has been keeping my hair! 😉
@ Yoda, I literally stated before.. “They’re not irreversible for the majority, it’s a minute fraction that is causes epigenetic changes in.”
So by saying “you present your statements as facts that affect all who take fin/dut” your massively misrepresenting what I said.
There are too many studies for me to go through them all and provide links, I’m sure if you searched them you’d be able to find them.
Here are a couple:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6652249/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.5301/jbm.5000095
It is a fact that this does occur to certain individuals who are susceptible, the same way some people get gynecomastia on treatment due to genetic polymorphisms.
Also, the Baylor study will be coming out soon which should be rather eye opening.
For what it’s worth, these changes would not show in a simple blood test, it doesn’t effect you at a hormonal level, it effects you at a genetic level.
In regards to Merck muddying the studies and overall the conflict of interest/poor studies done, please see this meta-analysis performed:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle/2212246
This report looks at the real side effect rate:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5023004/
If I’m being completely honest, while you seem like a nice guy – you seem very contradictory. You jumped on someone earlier for mentioning they have long term sides, saying that just because he did doesn’t mean everyone will essentially. While you tout that you haven’t had any for 20 years in the same manner, as if it is evidence of anything other than an anecdotal report.
I’m not anti fin/dut, I’m anti-systemic inhibition – it has an effect regardless of if you notice it or not. If you look at what I posted earlier, it should be pretty clear that I think anti-androgens are essential, but delivery of these drugs and localisation in targeted areas is extremely important.
Hell, I even said if fin can be tolerated in the mean time then it’s worthwhile.
Thinning, no contradiction here. I never said that my experience with fin/dut is what everyone will experience, that they should take it and they absolutely will have the same outcomes as me. The study on fin side % indicates that they are predominantly mild and go away in most. Ok, Yoda is busted…add me to those statistics. I had decreased ejaculation for a few weeks when I started fin that quickly cleared up after a few weeks. Would I trade the temporary lower volume of jizz for maintaining my hair? I think you know the answer.
“Long term systemic inhibition of 5AR can result in some nasty long term effects due to methalyation of certain genes caused by long term exposure – its an epigenetic issue.”
Versus
” I think anti-androgens are essential, but delivery of these drugs and localisation in targeted areas is extremely important.”
Sure, the latter sounds like an opinion or conclusion you’ve drawn as opposed to stating something that appears to be a fact. I disagree, nothing in those two links convinced me otherwise. Each individual has to decide what’s best for them, I’ve been pretty clear about that when I post my 40 years of experience. What I have a real problem with is guys who make blanket statements that their experience or opinion applies to everyone.
@Woofy97 I’m also in my early twenties (20) and have been balding for almost 5 years, so i’m one the rare few in the same boat as you and can truly understand what your going through. I also also spent years depressed over hair loss as a teen, but after years of depression my hair loss rarely gets me down. Premature hair loss is part of me and i own it.Sure, i’d look 10X better and feel more confident with good hair, but since i can’t achieve that anytime soon, I refuse to stress about it. The worrying and fixation over your hair-loss affects you much more than the hair loss itself. Right now, there’s not much we can do without hair cloning so what we should do is focus on our studies and career advancement to get a good paying job – so we can afford hair cloning treatments as soon as its available,hopefully by 2025.
Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice, I genuinely mean it.
??
Right, neither did Joe though – he just pointed out he and others had.. yet you equivocated that to him saying everyone else would.
Yeah, once again – I’m not anti fin, I’m not saying that the sides that most encounter are debilitating. I use the drug myself currently at a small dosage – I’d be insane to take a drug that I’m certain would destroy me.
In regards to what the two times you’ve quoted me, they’re essentially on different topics. ‘Epigenetic’ and ‘can’ being two key words. I previously stated, the people who have epigenetic changes can happen to people who are prone to them, albeit an extremely small percentage of users – they’re different from hormonal sides that some experience. I was pretty sure I made that clear in my last post.
In regards to “I think anti-androgens are essential, but delivery of these drugs and localisation in targeted areas is extremely important”
Yes, it appears to be a statement/opinion because it is, I never presented it as a fact.. the statement literally starts with ‘I think’.. you could argue that the second part of the sentence is me presenting a fact, but it would be a losing battle as in biomedicine it is widely accept that drug delivery and localisation is extremely important.
What I presented as a fact is that these epigenetic changes happen in a small percentage of people, its not even disputable – I linked to you studies which show clear evidence of methylation of SRD5AR gene. It’s like trying to dispute that finasteride lowers serum DHT.
There were 4 studies I linked not 2 for what its worth and I find it rather perplexing that you disagree with these studies without giving any specific reason to doubt them, it just seems like selective bias on your part. I
Yes, I agree that everyone should do what they thinks best for them, freedom is important – I think that’s something we can agree on. Also I to find it annoying when others assume that everyone will have the same experience as them, but as I stated at the start of this.. that guy you responded too wasn’t claiming that. He just gave his experience and noted that others had experienced it also.. I don’t think it warranted the following response..
“Joe, since you had sides nobody should take finastseride? Interesting logic or lack thereof”
When did he say nobody should take finasteride because he had sides? He did the same as you, give his experience. Thats all.
Ok, now you’re quoting a poster who you disagreed with on the duration of sides? Bro, you have way more time on you’re hands than I do. Let’s just say Yoda is not all that bright, you win. I know the Admin get’s tired of these back and forths anyways. Keep us posted on your efforts to contact the researcher, come up with a topical that meets your criteria, as it doesn’t seem to exist at this point. I’m more than pleased with the choices I’ve made, what I didn’t loose was time and hair by waiting. If I did Yoda would’ve been more than thin on top years ago. (*Disclaimer, Yoda’s experience is not guaranteed that you will experience the same outcomes). 🙂 Best wishes that one day you’ll have equal or better results.
Since we are on the topic of fin and dut, I had a weird reaction to dut, so did not continue taking it and am wondering is this normal when you start on the medication. After the second day of taking it, I felt a zapping feeling on my legs and then the arch of my foot started throbbing. I stopped taking it for a week and started up again and after day two same thing. I did this start and stop several times and same reaction. I asked my doctor, but he said it might be something with my health unrelated to the dut, which I don’t think it is,
Just curious whether anyone else had this reaction. I was a bit worried and did a search in the internet and although dut has not been researched extensively, there was a study done that indicated it may increase the risk of heart failure. Has anyone who’s on dut have any more information on this? I’d like to take it, but a little hesitant still.
Hi Lisa, I’ve been on dut for approximately 5 years and fin for 20 years prior. I never experienced any tingling in my body nor heart related issues. I think your doctor provided good feedback, I think we have an tendency to associate new bodily sensations, symptoms, etc. with anything new we are doing. A related example is that if one coughs irregularly we might think we have covid, I’m guilty of this. If you’re really concerned you might consult a medical professional that specializes in symptom that you are experiencing.
(*Disclaimer: Yoda has posted his personal experience and opinion, he’s not a medical professional, he is just another knucklehead on the internet, it’s not guaranteed that you will experience the same outcomes).
Thank you for your input Yoda. I no longer have any of the tingling now that I am not taking dut and likely if I went to the doctor, he/she will tell me stop taking it then. I may just be having a reaction to it, so maybe it’s not for me. Will check what my other options are at my next appointment. Thanks!
It’s pretty clear why I quoted him.. to illustrate he was just sharing his experience also I pointed out that its not persistant for everyone, which is completely inline with what I’ve been saying throughout.. that these epigenetic changes happen to a small fraction of people. Fortunately for me I do get to have quite a lot of free time, not sure how thats relevant though. I really couldn’t care who’s smarter, it’s besides the point and I don’t need my ego massaged.
Regarding the topical dut, I’ve done more digging on it and it seems that people even have good results without NPT gels, it seems that frequency of application is with dut (due to various molecular factors) is very key to avoiding systemic absorption while still reducing scalp and follicular dht.
If I recall correctly, you use topical dut – just out of curiousity how often do you apply?
Here’s a few studies which show that topical and even meso based dut therapies are effective while not going systemic – considering going for a non liposomal solution as it would be easier to apply, manage dosage and of course easier to source – the main goal of mine is for it to not crush serum DHT, which seems possible with topical dut but not fin (due to constant application of fin resulting in saturation)
meso – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596657/
topical – https://smj.journals.ekb.eg/article_42083_24b61cbba4be9982db23c318414034c0.pdf
Both reported no significant decrease in serum DHT, which goes in line with all the personal blood work I’ve seen of other users.
Going to come off finasteride completely for a month, get bloods for DHT done so I have some what of a baseline then continue to do so at certain intervals (3,6,9,12) just to see how far it reduced and how stable it is on the application frequency.
I’m glad you had success with zero sides, its the goal for everyone here. My personal goal is prevention with minimum change in my hormonal profile. For the people who do have hormonal sides from current treatments, this may be a real alternative for them so I’d like to share it.
All the best
Everyday, once a day in the PM as I use a different high concentration minox formula with Bimatoprost in the AM. Those, along with the oral route has given me a decent head of hair with no appreciable sides, ever. I don’t want to get into another back and forth you but I guess I’m confused. First you mentioned the “epigenetic issue”, then indicated more directly that it only happens to some people, is genetic, doesn’t mean you’ll have sides and wouldn’t show up in a blood test. Not sure how one would find out and why/if they would/should worry. Now your concerned with hormonal sides, which would show up in a blood test and most probably cause some level of sides. It’s ok if you don’t want to take something because your worried about sides but asking Yoda what he does is probably a bad barometer. Yoda has ever “worried”, blood work is normal range on all the related tests, no appreciable sides, real or imagined (yeah, I think the latter happens quite a bit more than the real thing, *an opinion). I have always consulted with medical professionals before embarking on a new treatment and is what Yoda recommends when he’s bloviating. While I’ve had some ups and downs over the years I’m in a really good hair place as of the present. Looks good short, looks good long, been many years since I could say that. And by the way, my comment about being smarter was sarcasm…everyone knows Yoda is smarter, you know it, I know it, the American people know it!! More sarcasm, lighten up Thinning, do your research, consult with a knowledgeable, credible medical professional, find the treatments that work for you and hopefully they will give you results. I’ve been doing that since the early 80’s, quite possibly before you were born (*an assumption).
(*Disclaimer: The views in this post are opinions based on Yoda’s forty years of personal experience of fighting hair loss. Yoda is not a medical professional, he is just another knucklehead on the internet, it’s not guaranteed that you will experience the same outcomes, side effect-wise or result-wise). XOXOXO! 🙂
What is topical dut ?
I have only ever taken oral which I do every 3 days due to it’s longer half-life. Is it more effective than oral? Any products to recommend? Thx
I think derma rolling and scalp massage is the key. I am convinced and I started a trial before a month. I am putting Gingko biloba serum every day, I am taking saw palmetto pills daily and Dermarolling with 0,5mm every two days and 1,5 mm once a week. I have order dermapen minoxidil and hyaluronic serum, Rosemary Oil and pumpkin seeds oil pills. I am trying to reduce dht naturally, hydrate and oxygenising scalp, increase blood pressure, and see the synergy between microneedling and all those serums. I think hyaluronic and dermapen 2 mm once a month it ll make the big difference. If I will service I will inform. Maybe add safflower, vitamin d3 or biotin. And stemoxidine shampoo also green tea like three cups a day helps like also helps to drink three lt if water per day. I believe in this there are many photos and videos with amazing results and too many researches tally about the benefits of all those things plus microneedling. Already I have seen increase in density and new little cella’s and three four terminal hairs sprout in front of my complete eye bald scalp. I think the most important is to consist for 6-12 months to see the real difference. I add so much regiments to make the growth more possible and then I will stay with dermarolling massage and palmetto. This is all my knowledge from the reasearch I be done. I think is cheap to regrow hair but it needs to insist
How would this work for women? Or would it?
It would work the same for women as it does for men, hair follicle germ replication and then implantation.
Can you also provide insight or a link (if already discussed) about how products come to market? Although some are already in phase 3, the estimate for market availability tends to be some way out. Why is that? What’s the process between clinical trial completion and product launch? Thank you!
Basically, a company will compile all of their data and submit a NDA or New Drug Application to the FDA to be able to market and sell their drug in the US. The FDA will then review that data package and come back with a yes, no, or a request for more information/testing. The FDA review process could take anywhere from 6 months to a year but I believe 6 months is standard. If the company receives a yes, they then embark on manufacturing and getting distribution setup for their drug which takes a few months. I may not be pinpoint on everything here but this is the gist of it.
I don’t know about you guys but this news about Tsuji is kinda depressing for me. I don’t think someone on the verge of finding a cure to hair loss ( hair cloning ), would even bother spending time working on a minoxidil 2.0. I think we just have to accept the fact that yoda was probably right and all we can do.right now is jump on finasterise and pray for the best, because we are still far away from a revolutionary cure in this field. I truly hope facts prove me wrong tho
You’re free to feel the way you wish to Shia, but I do wonder why Tsuji doing pathway research alongside his follicle cloning work would be depressing to you? When did things become an “either or” situation? Even when cloned follicles are a reality the world is still going to want a minoxidil 2.0 type of product.
effectively admin. me before accessing “Tsuji” in case it is available and I could pay for it, I would opt for treatments like Samumed, Follica, Hairclone (no news) etc. Tsuji would be the last option for many people as many would try to maintain or control their fall.
there is nothing to understand admin, people are willing to let off steam and have someone listen to them, that is why many come in here
I get your point admin, makes total sense, and I thank you for your answer and the incredible work you are doing for us all. I actually didn’t write the post just to let off steam and spread some pessimism, I actually come here, like most of us, for quite the opposite reason, and that is to find positivity and read about something that might finally cure this disease. Take care everyone
Thanks for the kind words Shu.
Only time will tell Shia
I kinda agree with Shia. I cannot really understand why bother and lose time, money and energy on that.
People are looking to get rid of minox which, in my case for instance simply does not work.
So with hair multiplication cloning, if proven to work (which i believe and hope it will) we’ll go like 7 steps beyond minox.
I’m not depressed by this news as I don’t think of any of this as near term treatments. Maybe it’s good news and maybe it’s not (that sounded like Trum!). I don’t take the time to watch YJ’s videos due to lack of interest. It was reported that Tsuji mentioned “Adenosine as a recommended hair loss product”. Really? Where and by who? Shiseido, the company that makes it? I’ve used it, might as well pour weak tea on your head and save some money. It might have some positive effect on a certain, limited number of people, like laser, PRP, stemoxodine, etc. However, for the vast majority of readers on this forum I’ll go out on a limb and say the only outcome you’ll experience with Adenosine is a lighter wallet and nice smelling noggin. My thought (opinion) is that Dr. Tsuji seems to be all over the map with things that haven’t been tested on humans yet. Hopefully one of the things he’s throwing against the wall will actually stick by the end of the decade. At this point he reminds me of a Japanese DR. George Cotsarelis, things in the hopper that take forever, if ever.
Hi Follica thought do you think Follica will get approved next year? What’s your timeline?
Follicle thought*
Maybe Q1 2022 if they continue on their current pace.
Ok
Woofy what do You think personally about latest Tsuji news?
al.budny I think it’s interesting it’s not really bad or good news. I have no problem with a better minoxidil but all I want is Dr tsuji to start trials for hair cloning because I’m a NW5 and I’m younger than 25 I doubt the compounds he found would help me but who knows and I don’t want to wait another 5 years for approval. I’m happy though atleast tsuji said trials will begin this year for hair cloning so fingers crossed.
I wrote a comment on here nearly 3 months ago. I think admin blocked me but oh well. I’m doing research at my local university. I can say I stand by my claim that this product will be released in 2024. A 3 year trial seems logical, given full hair formation takes about a year. As I stated, which other laughed at, the major issue that presides here is immune rejection. I saw it coming a mile away from the results we got from stem cells at my own university. No doubt in my mind the procedure will work. But I should add, it won’t work on everybody. People with scarring alopecia, strong immune systems. With these types of stem cells theres about a 20% rejection rate among individuals. I encourage all of you to remain hopeful. But I should add, nobody ever wants to be a first in a new category because no one wants blood on their hands. Most of man kinds greatest drugs and cures were discovered by accident when conducting trials for a different use case. People here are crying that things aren’t being done fast enough. maybe you should be grateful researchers are spending 12 hour days thinking about everything that can go wrong. immune rejection, hair pattern, oil glands, connection to existing blood vessels, direction, hair cycles, color, thickness, density, etc. Anybody here should wear a hair system for 3-5 years and wait until it comes out. Ive said this from the beginning. Thats my advice.
Hi Jake, thanks for visiting. If any of your comments in the past were removed, it was for a good reason. I don’t remember anything specifically. I do remember thanking you for sharing your ideas about certain hair treatments.
Jake why You are so sure that hair cloning will be working? there was no human trials yet
science is limited by two things. 1.) computers(how many different models can you predict and that’s dictated by computer performance. Thats why quantum computer will change medicine forever, because you can basically map the human body on a computer and run trials on a computer instead of real life. The best supercomputer we have today(size of a building) can only map a rats brain.
2.) Money. 20 years ago, men weren’t spending as much on health and looks. With social media, new bio tech companies, and a population willing to spend 200k on a treatment to fix hair I would argue there’s a huge financial incentive for any firm to discover a cure.
Jake I agree with you on the timeline. And are you jake+Palmer or is that a different person?
Jake you said it won’t work on “people with strong immune systems” you mean weak immune systems? Just want to clarify
Stronger immune systems. Every cell has a receptor. If macrophages, white blood cells detect differentiations with those receptors, they destroy the cell. when you multiply any cell you tend to have differentiation with those receptors. The dna of the cell mutates into something else. Thats essentially what cancer is. Uncontrollable cell division. stronger immune systems mean more white blood cells, etc to destroy cloned follicles. I honestly don’t know if they’ll overcome the immune issue within the next 5-10 years. My best guess is they develop a screening mechanism to throw away all the mutated cells they know will be rejected upon injection into the scalp
Jake so if I understand correctly, cloning will not be a good solution for everyone? are there people who will reject cloned cells?
Jake do u think hair cloning could be applicable for dupa patients?
No. Most hair loss lasts about 20-30 years before your testosterone levels settle down and you’ve lost most of the hair that will be effected. You have two options. Take out 2,000 follicles and bank them in a preservation center so you’ll have “fresh undamaged follicles” in 4 years time. Then spend 200k every 6-12 months getting top offs for your dupa. Or wait 20-30 years from the start of your alopecia to the point where the hair loss has subsided to go have the cloning procedure then. I dont know if you have 200k to spend every year to get top offs, but sorry man from past experience this procedure wasn’t designed for dupa. It was designed for people who need it once every 50 years.
would love to know if it’d work for dupa aswell thanks
I will say this. A lot of people are on here complaining about price. I will say this. When I heard about the research in 2015 I thought they’d price it in around 2-3 million. there are 50 million, multi millionaire men out there. Lets use the 50% balding statistic. 25 million of them are bald. I guarantee most of them would be willing to pay a million for the procedure. I think the procedure will most likely come in at 300k tbh and not change for the 20 year patent holding they have. If 25 million bald men worth 5+ million(which exists) paid 300k each, Riken would net 7.5 trillion dollars. In my opinion, I think Riken and Tsuji will use the money they get from millionaires to fund solutions of other health problems. Cloning hearts, livers, brain cancer etc. I dont think tsuji and Riken care about helping the little guy I think its a gateway to get the money to make a bigger impact in society. As a research I can tell you that cancer research is highly underfunded but cosmetic research has 10x in the last 10 years. I say this to caution all of you on optimism in regards to price and to stay a little more realistic in your future goals
Agree Jake 300k$ for this procedure is a reasonable price
I wonder how much the mice are paying? 😉
Yoda hahahahaha
According to a study by The Boston Consulting Group, there are more millionaires today than in the entire history of the world. The report defines a millionaire as a household that holds more than $ 1 million in private wealth. Some of the most important data are:
– There are 17.9 million millionaires in the world today, 8% more than the total of 16.6 last year.
When it comes to millionaires, they are people who spend 1 million, it can be 1,000,001 and you are already a millionaire and there are no 50 million millionaires.
A person with a million would not spend a quarter on their hair, at least I would not do it even with more than 2 million for obvious reasons.
How many of those millionaires are bald? And how many of those bald men are capable of using a new technology without knowledge on the part of the normal population (not experts)?
And how many bald millionaires solve their problem with a standard FUE? Or with a simple micropigmentation, hair prosthesis etc?
I don’t know how much it would cost, but I am almost certain that it would lower the price to be more affordable.
Soul is going to be an expensive procedure, don’t be delusional
Al.budny
I am not deceiving myself, I only reflect what is a reality. I never said it was as cheap as a graft was medium etc. saying more affordable does not mean a few dollars, you must have a better reading comprehension.
Nobody knows anything until there is a statement.
Soul the amount of 3050k $ is not exaggerated, it is a very expensive therapy, years of research now Riken wants to earn on it, after all, if it succeeds, it means historic moment
Jake what question I have for you is it possible to use beard hair instead of head hair to clone beard hair, after all this beard hair is resistant to androgenetic alopecia and senile hair loss, and not the back hair, what is your opinion?
The fact is that no one (outside of Riken) knows how much it’s going to cost. This is all (wild) speculation on treatment that hasn’t even started human clinical trials yet. Let Yoda get into the act, I actually spoke to a Japanese carrier pigeon writer named old propeller plane who saw Tsuji at a Holiday Inn Express and spoke with him for 10 seconds. I don’t speak or understand a word of Japanese but I think he said the treatment will be free.
That nonsense was almost as credible as what people seem to be hanging their hats on. The internet is a strange place, easy to see why conspiracy theories are so easily taking hold these days. People looking to explain the unexplained. That’s Yoda’s old man rant for the day…maybe! 🙂
I’m not talking directly about Riken, I’m talking about a supposed release of a possible solution to alopecia. at least I put a statistic something more real if this happens. as I always say, I would be more excited about Hairclone or Tissuse.
yoda i always feel like when you type something you’re speaking like yoda lol
woofy ??
Woof, you seem like a real good kid. I’m really pulling for you to find treatments that might work for you until some of these more far off research products come to fruition. If your hair loss really bothers you and you truly believe you’ve exhausted everything that’s currently available (on and off label), have you considered FUE or FUT surgery? Yoda feels this is the option of last resort but better than loosing precious time as the years tick by. Being pro-active in itself feels empowering.
Thanks yoda. And yes I have had a consultation with Dr Wong through Skype back in late 2017 I told him I would like to do FUT because of my advanced hair loss he agreed. I really want my hair back but the problem is that both of my uncles (on mothers side) are Nw 7 but there donor area doesn’t look like a skinny horse shoe it’s kinda large, and my dad is a NW 5 or 6 he still has hair so idk I think I’m following my one uncle hair pattern so I really want a hair transplant but I don’t want to get it and have more hair loss I’m worried because I don’t know if my pattern is really stable and I’m on Finasteride so if I get off Finasteride (which I’m definitely not) and then see oh maybe it will stop here and then goes to a 7 I’m screwed. So I just need a miracle. I take Finasteride every day at the same time or else I start to have extreme anxiety and depression, and I met this girl last week and I think she likes me but she’s only seen me with my hat on so if I ask her out and we get into it lol and she wants me to take my hat off i don’t know if I can do that I guess I’ll just flip my baseball cap backwards.
Woof, I understand your concern with the ladies. Just be yourself, she’ll like you for who you are or if not, it wasn’t meant to be. I’m puzzled that fin is not slowing/stopping your loss. Please research derms (nationwide) that might recommend other options. Are you in the US? Yoda had great luck on fin for over 20 years, after it’s effectiveness started to wane Dut slowed the loss again, adding topical dut, (0.1% in 7% minox) my loss is now pretty much at zero. Find the right doctor and they can help you get your arms around the problem.
Hi yoda yes I’ve been on Finasteride now for 3 years I started mid August 2017 It’s worked very well the first year I saw, very good regrowth and it has completely stopped my hair loss but mid last year I noticed my frontal forelock area looks a little thinner I don’t know if I’m seeing things or not and sometimes it itches but the crown has not changed to this day. Maybe Finasteride works better for the crown then the frontal forelock?
I’m confused. Does this mean that Tsuji’s team has been working on additional hairloss treatments, and these treatments will outperform minoxidil? When you say commercialisation in five years, do you mean the additional treatments or hair cloning?
I really, really hope you don’t mean that his cloning procedure will be slightly better than minoxidil. That would be dreadful news.
So much hope resting on Tsuji and similar treatments.
I have no idea how Jake is sure the Tsuji method will work, and in 4 years … there has not been a single human study. why this certainty Jake>?
Woofy, you could be seeing hair loss “mirages” , happens to the best of us, even Yoda! Fin should work all over but it doesn’t mean you’ll respond the same as someone else. You are using minoxidil? There are variations if you do some searching. You need to make sure the DHT is halted as much as possible and have a growth stimulant. Just an opinion with very little info (aka ignorant assumption) but my guess is that you have not exhausted all of your options.
Any update on the Histogen trials or when they’re expected to finish FT?
Would also love to hear Jake’s take on Histogen, I’m a little skeptical myself but would love to hear the thought process from someone with more knowledge than myself on the subject.
Hi thinningontop, the Histogen trial will be completed by year’s end and the clinical data will be shared by the year’s end as well. Good stuff.
Joseph, just an out of the blue thank you again for running such a “clean” site devoted to real hair loss developments. I looked at another blog with the same mission, today it was a posting on haircut frequency with political views mixed in. While you might not post as many new articles as often, it’s definitely the quality vs. quantity proposition!
Histogen is interesting. On one hand the results speak for themselves. the photos are undeniable. On the other hand I fear they played with the results a little bit to get more funding so they could come up with something that works. That happens alot in the medical community. Because funding is so limited. I honestly dont have an opinion
Woofy when you get freaky with your girl dont you dare act scared to take off your hat. You already know she likes your face and your personality. She wont care about your hair if you don’t. If she makes a comment about your hair, just say “it’s just hair girl, I’m a guy I don’t care” then start making out with her and end the conversation. Take charge and dont be a bamma:) your my boy woody! This one girl said my hair was thinning when we were making out and she had her hand on my hair. I was like I know it is then I said having sex with a hot girl like you grows it back. She laughed, I smiled and we had a fun night:) Its only when you start being embarrassed or sensitive about it to a girl is when they get turned off. Just come here to vent about mpb. That’s what I do 🙂
yoda is there anyway i can private message you? email? i don’t want to tell everyone on here. i’m not doing very good mentally. (i live in the united states just want to let you know) i think you asked in a earlier comment to me.
woofy, if you’re having a tough time mentally, please seek professional treatment. Even the online route of mental health treatment is available. I think the important part is to keep the leverage of well being on your side, it’s not meant for hair loss to have more leverage in your life than you do. Take that leverage back and live on bro.
I second what the Admin has related Woofy. The last thing you need is an internet nut bag like Yoda to guide you through mental challenges. Please seek a professional for your mind and your hair. Two great derms I can recommend that actually know about hair loss are Peter Panagotacos MD in San Francisco and Peter Rullan MD in San Diego. Panagotacos was my 1st doc back in the 80’s, got me on minox and fin off label before they are released, he knows his stuff. Rullan is more recent, informed about Dut and oral minox. Most derms will simply prescribe Rogaine and Propecia, works for many but not for all and can loose effectiveness over time. Some hair transplant docs might be ok but Yoda’s feeling is the vast majority will up-sell you into a transplant procedure or nonsense like PRP, exosomes, etc. Caveat emptor!
I understand yoda, and follicle thought I’ll find a Therapist, I tried 2018 I met this therapist and she used conitive therapy on me but the anxiety about my hair was to much for me and i did some of the stuff that she told me but I couldn’t give up most of the rituals, maybe I’ll schedule another appointment with her she said I was responding to the cognitive therapy but not that much and that I should get on a SSRI medication but I asked some hair loss doctors about it and they said SSRI can speed up your hair loss so Decided not to get in a SSRI so I don’t know. but I’ll take a look at those Hair doctors yoda if no other hair doctor can prescribe me dutasteride (if I ever need it) then I’ll contact those doctors. Thanks guys for your advice and helping me I really appreciate it.
Ya this is kind of confusing what will be commercialized these serums or the cloning?
H, I will say it again. Why would it be an “either or” situation? More than likely Tsuji will sell the molecule to pharma/cosmetic company, but that’s if there is interest. It’s not a guarantee that this molecule will ever reach the clinical trial route.
Here is a new video interview with Angela Christiano about printing hair and skin, for those who do not frequent the https://folliclethought.com/updates/ page.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXBfgetbl9g
I just watched the whole interview, I wanted her to answer the question about the expected date for release so badly, but I suppose the road is still long if the inductivity problem still exists. Do we know if Tsuji research solved it?
Shu good question- what about inductivity problem?
Tsuji has branded himself as the hair cloning king. He is going to use that name to sell anything that will make him money. Remember business only want MONEY. I agree with admin. Just because he is focusing on other mpb treatments doesn’t mean his hair cloning is doomed lol. He is diversifying his portfolio. I would do the exact same thing.
Mijones true:)
Admin,what do you think about anagen shampo and topical from hairlosssecret???
I would not expect anything of those products to be honest, have not heard anything about it.
As I’ve stated, Tsuji used adult stem cells on rodent models. 75% of the time the same results transfer back to humans. There are two huge concerns that are yet to be resolved. 1.) hair pattern, 2.) rejection. I think the cancer related issues are mostly solved. But hair pattern is determined by the outer layer of the hair follicle. If you just inject the root, hairs can spring up in all different patterns. Straight curly, wavy. The nylon thread solved direction but it didnt solve pattern distribution. Now patents last 20 years. They filed patents in 2011 and 2016 for mass production of epithelial cells. Given the 20 year term limit, competitors could enter the industry and reduce costs to the low thousands(10-15k) by 2036. Hair loss will be solved during our lifetime for sure, I stand by my claim 2024 localized launch in Japan, then 2025-2026 global launch but it won’t really be for everyone tbh. There’s going to be a huge waitlist of people with 300k. Honestly I think their going to spend the first couple years offering slots to the highest bidders given the limited production constraints. It takes 20 days for one facility to reproduce 10k hair follicles for one person. I see their being a 10-100,000 person cap per year. Think about it like the fist iPhone. New, hard to make, expensive and limited production given space.
Jake so true, for average Joe in 2040
I would say: you don‘t really know anything – it‘s only assumptions from your side.
Anyhow, thanks for your opinion.
Krato are You writing to me?
no Krato’s response was not to you al.budny.
Krato is Yoda’s brother from another mother! I want these guys to pick some stocks for me, they seem to be able to predict the future with little to no data.
Jake I thought stemson therapeutics has already resolved the pattern issue with the bio degradable scaffold? Maybe I read it wrong. But Tsuji could just copy that
Woofy admin “Jake and others, what do You think about Stemson’s price? what will it cost?
We have no idea but probably a lot similar to tsuji in the beginning.
Stemson’s price is a long ways off before being a thing.
Nobody knows when any treatment will come out like tsuji. If you want to take a guess it’s best to look at past progressions. For ex: propecia came out in 1998. 22 yrs later they finally approved a topical finasteride. 2nd ex: rogaine was released in the 80s. It took them until 2006 or so to release a foam version. 3rd ex: hair transplant have been around since the 70s. Took them until 2001 or so to develop the fue. Now the big players are starting to perfect large 6k grafts fue instead of using fut. That took 20 yrs. 4th Curis, aderans, intercytex etc all mid 2000s, all failed including replicel in the hair regeneration game. Now if you see how long it takes to do advancements in approved drugs from the 80s and 90s and procedures like ht to fue in a span of 20yrs then you can understand why people like, yoda etc are VERY skeptical that tsuji will perfect and release a cloning procedure in 4 yrs. This is just my opinion. I do believe there is huge red tape, lobbying and blocking for better treatments from other companies. Hairloss is the biggest scam business that brings billions of dollars from scam treatments and of course from the big 3 and Fue. Hopefully with advancements in AI, genetic engineering and quantum computing new treatments will be developed and trialed much quicker. But believing that tsuji is the best and he will bring the cure by 2024, just reread my time frame overview from this post and you can see how its nearly impossible he can deliver a working treatment in 3.5 yrs. Msybe 20 years we will have hair cloning replacing fue….
mjones fda probably gets a little profit from merck and generic fin and dut pharma companies and the lobbying i agree and maybe some sleazy hair transplant doctors are also involved. but i still believe tsuji will release by 2024 lol fda can’t touch him.
Woofy 2024 only if You are rich, for average joe maybe 2030 imo, lets facet the truth – we are the last generation of balding men in history, sad but true
Since when has topical finasteride been FDA approved? pretty sure Almirall has only filed for approval.
Also, speculating that it will be Tsuji’s solution will be released in 2024 when it’s not even been officially announced by Riken/Organ that they’re starting human trials is nonsensical. I couldn’t care less about potential release dates, I’d rather see clinical trial results. Even if it does my some miracle work, it won’t be available to the masses until 2030 onwards at the very earliest – and that’s to people willing to pay 50k at the minimum I’d imagine.
Tsuji has alot of name value in the world of hairloss, so the fact that he’s now touting new hair loss medications that slightly outperform minoxidil is a red flag to me. Would seem like they’re trying to cash in on that name value he has to re-coup losses from failed development. Hope this isn’t the case though.
50 100 200 k$ is a reasonable fee for this treatment if someone is able to restore full head of hair – look what plastic surgery miracles are doing korean surgeries, Asians are very smart people, I put my hope for dr Tsuji imo he will cure baldness, but it is only my speculation, i dont belive in usa doctors, they just talking talking and talking, did they do any progress?
Even more proves my point. Still haven’t approved topical fin. 22 yrs later lol.
Mijines he is working on hair cloning from 2012? so it is not 3.5 years:) but to be honest no one knows when it will be available and what will be the cost, imo 300k is only for completely bald men not for lower norwood, but they probbly dont look at Tsuji, imo only bald men are interested in, but is my thoughts
Yoda and *
Yoda doesn’t speculate one way or the other. Tsuji could be released tomorrow and cost $100 or in ten years and cost $1m or never. What sticks in Yoda’s craw is people that make definitive statements (not couched as opinions), like they have knowledge or authority to do so. And in-turn, guys that hang their hats on these statements as facts, pin their hopes on baseless claims and make decisions on how to proceed in the present, with treatments that may never be, or won’t come to fruition in the time frame/costs these “experts” present.
Yoda this is not 2000 year, there is a progress in hair cloning, I think we are th last bald generation, ilke i wrote before – sad but true
What does the year have to do with what I wrote? Did I say hair cloning will never come to fruition? No, I did not. Please carefully read before you engage your keyboard Al. Hyperventilating won’t make a treatment come to pass any faster, as far as I know. Maybe you know something that Yoda doesn’t, like the year that Tsuji is being released and the exact cost at launch…please share with the world. 🙂
I don’t know anything like all of you who write here, I can only speculate – in my opinion hair cloning is really available for the middle class is 2030 I can wait 10 years for new hair and more importantly young generations will not have to go through baldness, even people 60+ they look much better with hair than without, probably it’s only a matter of time when eternal youth will be available to people,
My advice is that we watch you progress and use this site for what it is, a place where we are notified of the progress you are making. In case tsuji and the company succeed, only they will know how to market it, it is stupid to look back to predict what may happen now and in the future. No one of us knows. speculation is on a grand scale.
I have always said that I would be excited about more jobs like Hairclone, Tissuse, Follica and maybe Cb because for me they are more realistic since if they are successful they can reactivate or improve miniaturized hair and possibly arrive earlier. Maybe not Tissuse, but who knows?
Soul hairclone that British company is a joke it’s literally the same thing as replicel and anderans.
Woofy that i s true, hairclone will never find a cure, I have a question, what other problems have Dr. Tsuji to solve? I wonder if it will be possible to control the thickness of the hair to get hair thicker than the original?
al.budny i have no idea but if you read jakes comments it seems like those are the problems. But if the pattern is a problem tsuji can just copy what stemson therapeutics has done use a biodegradable scaffold.
I think we are just assuming too much. These scientist are pioneers, it’s a totally new technology and they haven’t even started human trials, they most likely haven’t even solved all of the theoretical issues. And even if they start trials in 2022, wich I don’t think is the case, we are just assuming everything is gonna go smooth in the trials and from then it’s just a matter of time before they release it commercially.
Shia what theoretical problems they didnt solve?
Shia, where the hell did you read 2022?? Right here it says trials will start in 2020.
cure now nobody knows when the trial will start
The more I think about tsuji focusing on new compounds makes me think his hair cloning is prob going to be bs. Msybe the same result of an fue just no scarring. I think it’s a red flag and kind of like a con artist ht doc trying to upsell you prp.
Mjones if not Tsuji then who? I think he is our last hope to be honest, that i my opinion, but today it is only speculation, no one knows
Hair research didn’t start with Tsuji and it won’t end with Tsuji, if he’s successful or a failure. The wheels of research will continue to turn.
Admin, Abit off topic I hope you dont mind. Would love to hear the opinion of the readers on the Dr. Zarev from Bulgaria who is using a vacuum assisted FUE method which allows for 60% of the donor area be extracted.
His results on NW 6/7 are outstanding.
While costly at 4€ a graft, is this not a cure (In a way) for many poeple with good donor supply?
https://www.hairtransplantation.bg/index.php/en/results
I saw that on another forum Paul, looks interesting however I’m no expert on hair transplant procedures. Maybe admin can reach out and try to find out more info? Also, I’m not suggesting it’s the same technology as I’m ignorant on the subject but didn’t the old “Neograft” machine have a vacuum assist? I believe the jury was that it wasn’t very good.
Yoda,
Iv been in contact with this surgeon. His work seems very interesting to me, my plan is to have an in person consultation with him this December (coronavirus willing) if I learn anything interesting I will report.
Guys also if Japan has allowed for a retinal stem cell transplant on a human and now i believe it’s approved by the Japanese government then tsuji will start trials soon and if it works they will get approval you guys already know my timeline lol 🙂 and also Japan was the first to invent the hair transplant they will be the first to do a clone hair transplant. Japan is not like western countries. It’s not going to take 10 more years for hair cloning to come out probably in the United States but not in Japan. I’ve said this like thousand times. Just because you unfortunately have been waiting a long time doesn’t mean it’s going to be another 10 years. You can’t look at the past failures tsuji’s is different from others.
I agree with You Woofy, Tsuji is not like ken washenik, replicel etc the problem of baldness will be solved in our lifetime, it is good that the next generations will not have to go through what we do
I have to admit I find it odd that people are thrown off by Dr. Tsuji testing compounds in his lab. There’s only so much that can be achieved in a time period for one focus alone, why not explore other avenues in hair research while you’re at it?
Just a few months ago Dr. Karl Koehler at Harvard shared he is also screening compounds on his lab grown follicles in tandem with developing the follicles themselves.
Yoda’s not thrown off, I file Tsuji and other technology of this ilk in the “interesting to learn about but not relevant for the near term” file. Appreciate admin reporting on all things on the horizon, both near and long term. As well as not reporting on hair cut frequency, Tiger King and his views on politics, that’s what Facebook is for. 😉
Admin Dr Koehler is long way after dr Tsuji, i do not believe that someone in usa will cure baldness
Yes but Dr. Koehler’s work may be a bit better than you think. I think it’s wise to appreciate all efforts being made.
Follicle thought have you covered this? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338218892_Ultrasound-activated_particles_as_CRISPRCas9_delivery_system_for_androgenic_alopecia_therapy
Not yet, Woofy. Coming within the next 2 weeks or so.
Admin is true, I will be grateful to anyone who makes a bald head grow lush hair, but personally I think that only Dr. Tsuji can do it at the moment
And also follicle thought how do I sign up for a clinical trial? Would it be on clinical trials.gov? And could i join Follica’s phase 3 trial?
Hey Woofy, to participate in a clinical trial contact the company of your interest directly and ask for details. I responded to you in the HairClone thread also.
Its only targeting SRDA2 in local scalp tissues and states “ELISA analysis revealed that SRD5A2 levels decreased ~50% after Cas9/sgRNA ([Cas9] > 0.6 μM) treatment and maintained down- regulation for at least four days”
Basically, it’s about the same efficiency as finasteride in scalp tissues. The whole point of it its to avoid systemic issues with current treatments.
“Due to the systemic nature of androgenic alopecia oral remedies, various side effects are incurred, such as hypotension, sexual dysfunc- tion, and severe allergic reaction. As for topical agents such as minox- idil, low transfer efficiency limits their therapeutic effect [30]. There- fore, we explore a genetic approach towards androgenic alopecia
therapy to overcome such limitations.”
Basically, it’s of no value to anyone who uses finasteride without side effects.
This honestly isn’t worth reporting on, if it was of any value we’d of heard other reports about it by now, its been 9 months since the paper was published and its been radio silence.
I’d rather hear about Exicure tbh.
SDR5A2*
SRD5A2* third times a charm lol
thinning, I’d have to disagree with your assessment. This therapy is next level with much more potential than oral finasteride.
Next level in terms of technology used? sure. I don’t see how it can be next level in terms of outcome compared to anything we have though, dutasteride outperforms it in terms of 5AR suppression in scalp tissue if you go by the data provided in the study – and thats oral, topicals can reduce it by around 90%. How does if have more potential if its targeting the exact same androgen less effectively, regardless if you’re targeting it at the genetic level or not.
Even more so, some people who absolutely nuke DHT don’t get regrowth. Why would anyone pay for a cas9 treamtent (which are normally way overpriced for what they are) just to see the same results, if not worse than you would with topical dut.
There’s nothing in that study that indicates this is next level to me and all I’m doing is going by the outcomes the study provided.
The reason I say Exicure is way more promising is purely because part of their approach much more tailored, to actually look at your genetics and make appropriate changes relating to the condition they are trying to cure – even that is still a long shot considering there are 112 autosomal genes and 13 X chromosome genes that have been identified as causes of androgenic alopecia (that we know of so far) and geneticist are still learning how certain genes interact with each other for various functions, so I’d be surprised if you can knock out all large percentage of them without any repercussions.
If you don’t mind me asking, what is it you find so promising from this study? I’m a little puzzled, I must say.
Where are you seeing in the study that orals or topicals reduce DHT by 90%? I haven’t read the whole study btw.
It’s not in that study, but its well defined in the literature that Dutasteride inhibits serum DHT by 90% and in the few topical dutasteride studies it has shown to reduce by up to 90% in scalp tissues when combined with other treatments (varies slightly from person to person)
Oral Dutasteride 0.5mg alone has shown to also inhibit scalp DHT up to 51% which is equal to the outcome of the Cas9 study.
The Cas9 study clearly states in the Introduction and Conclusion that the point of this treatment is to avoid systemic effects caused by current treatments.
Ok thanks, I think perhaps there is quite a big difference between inhibiting DHT in serum levels compared to inhibiting DHT in the actual hair follicle bulb which the gene editing therapy does. The point of the treatment as I’ve been told is not to just avoid systemic effects, but to also produce a superior treatment, I know that for a fact. We’ll see how it goes and if they can do that.
Follicle thought apparently there was a drug back in the early 1980s that regrew hair on male pattern baldness patient the drug was called benaxoprofen it’s a anti-inflammatory drug it was banned by FDA and Uk gov though from dangerous side effects and 12 people unfortunately died. But maybe the scientists can screen for the drugs the have the same mechanism as benaxoprofen just not the nasty side effects.
Woofy, we bet when Tsuji hits the market?
Al.budny My bet is no later then 2024
Woofy only in Japan and for rich people
Hi Follicle thought so Follica is at 30cm2 New hair follicles do you think if you keep doing it past 85 days in the same area of scalp you will eventually get to 100cm2 or 200cm2? someone on the other site told me that it’s impossible. I want to know your thoughts please. And also if Follica wants to make the wound device better they don’t have to go through a long process with the FDA again right? Thanks
hello woofy I doubt that it will reach 100 cm2 …. they say folly that it has reached 33 44% of regrowth I hope it is true … because by doing this treatment you add a transplant practically you come back again !!!
My guess Woofy, is that 30cm2 of new hair follicles is the upper limit of Follica’s current potential, and likely not a typical result if you’re looking for an honest opinion.
hello admin I think the 30 cm 2 … we are a very good regrowth result … then as I said before one can come back almost new with a transplant!
How long do the results last is a good question, most anecdotal reports of people using micro needling and minoxidil (With or without other molecules) always seem to regress back to baseline after a few years.
The only real ‘cure’ I’d see in the future being worthwhile is a combination of Exicure/Tsuji, thats if they both go off without a hitch, which is unlikely if history tells us anything.
No single small molecule drug will ever cure a mutlifactorial issue like androgenic alopecia, at least thats what most of the experts have been saying. Hopefully a combination could work effectively, but that’s just speculation.. and a long way off before its even possible to try.
Thinningontop what is exicure doing? I thought they got investment from Allergan Pharma for some acid hair loss treatment? Are they also working on gene therapy for hair loss or something?
@woofy
All gene therapies involve nucleic acid in some form or another.. DNA stands for Deoxyribonucleic acid.
Crispr treatments combine the cas9 enzyme with a guide RNA (Ribonucleic acid)
Exicure is currently on the forefront of SNA (spherical nucleic acid) r&d although it’s been around since the mid 90’s.
These treatments are way off though, as stated the complexity of gene’s involved in balding is astounding. Crispr is mostly being used currently for gene therapies involving diseases with an allele mutation within one gene (sickle cell, hutchinson etc). The more genes you add in the more complex it gets as most genes serve more than one purpose and influence expression of other genes.
Before having a gene therapy based cure, we’d have to actually fully understand the genetics involved with androgenic alopecia, which we’re still extremely far from, there would still be a lot of questions to answer before it’s feasible even after that point.
It’s 2020 and we still don’t have a definitive answer as to wether specific follicles are sensitive to DHT, or specific areas of the scalp are. The literature would point to it being the latter, although it’s not known for sure.
HT surgeons always advise patients to use medication to stop the ‘pre-transplant hair’ from continuing to thin, but in reality they don’t know if the hair which has been transplanted would thin without it.
Hence why I think exicure/tsuji is the only viable solution to those with aggressive balding that can’t be controlled with medication – keep in mind that is just speculation on my part though and we don’t know enough about exicure yet to even say if its worthwhile, I’d imagine they’ll be in R&D for a long time if they are actually looking to develop something worthwhile.
Admin, I haven’rt said it in a while…you are a very patient man! 🙂
Thanks Yodes! I’m just mastering the force, you know 😉
why can’t male pattern baldness just be temporary this is such bs. the fda will slow walk any new really good treatment or hair cloning if hair cloning ever goes to trials for AGA, they are in bed with big pharma. and those hair company’s such as “roman” and “keeps” that sell fin like get out of here stop trying to profit from us give us a cure. just my midnight rant
Woofy japan is not usa luckily there is no fda in asia
Those results By Dr. Zarev look good. The crown I’m very impressed not a lot of doctors can make the crown look good he must have been using the lateral slit technique also if you’re a high Norwood 6 or 7 I’d be cautious FUE can take more donor area hair and he’s probably operating outside the donor zone of these patients very risky then you end up losing transplanted hairs then the donor area looks depleted and thin. No thanks
And If you’re a Norwood 7 there’s nothing you can do or maybe if you’re a Norwood 7 but you don’t have the horse shoe look then a FUT is the way to go, otherwise you have to wait for cloning unfortunately.
Food for thought, you can always buzz a donor area after FUE if you need/want to with no worries. After FUT, shaving the donor becomes a much more prevalent issue and less desirable situation. I’m way more of a proponent for FUE because of that fact alone.
Follicle thought that’s true. for me personally If I ever get a transplant it’s going to be with Bernstein medical or hasson and Wong with lateral slit technique FUT since I have high Norwood pattern it will probably either go to a 6 or 7 (hopefully not 7) but I’ll just keep my hair long. Dr Rassman told me that my uncle’s are Norwood 7s they don’t have horse shoe Norwood 7 though they have kinda large donor area’s and I believe I’m following one uncle on my mothers side he’s in his 50s We both happen to be twins also (not sure if genetics are at play there), but I’m an identical twin he’s not and we are close in height also which I find it interesting. The hair gods could be telling me something lol :).
there will be no better option for a head full of hair than the treatment of tsuji, give up hair transplantation waste of time and money better worry where to get $ 350k for a trip to Japan
so the point is that the front of the head and the top can be dht sensitive areas and not the back of the head? that is, the skin in these areas is different? I don’t understand what’s going on, can you explain?
People that are waiting, or encouraging others to wait, for treatments that haven’t been tested on humans yet are living in a fairy tale world. Go ahead and wait for a treatment that may or may not arrive, if it does who knows how many years. You’ll have nothing to loose but time and hair…good luck with that plan!
The skin itself is the same, but the fibrous membrane underneath (galea/epicranial aponeurotica) is different to other parts of the scalp.
so cloned dht-resistant hair can fall out again when it is transplanted onto the top of the head?
This is unlikely al.budny, as even non-cloned hair does not typically degrade when transplanted to the top of the head. This is the whole premise of “hair transplants.”
Admin taht would be great:)
Yoda maybe many years or maybe several years, who of us know that? these are all just assumptions, but I can wait and have 50 years for my hair, I will enjoy a thick hair even at the end of my life, which I wish you too good luck 🙂
Yoda and mjones what are your thoughts on Histogen?
Woofy i think Histogen will not cure baldness
Yoda’s thoughts on Histogen is that it’s actually in clinical trials on humans which is something to be excited about. As far as it being a successful treatment, Yoda doesn’t play the speculation game, it’s wait and see…and not betting on futures, getting on, being on current available treatments.
AI.budny I agree it’s not cure they are treatments but looking at some of the Histogen pictures I have to say it looks like a better treatment then Follica’s device. Maybe if you add Histogen with Follicas device You’ll get a really good result. (When they actually release to the public)
Woofy, I prefer to wait for hair cloning than to spend money on some half-measures that will give me 100 new hairs on my head for a year, for me histogen and follica are companies with no future when it comes to curing baldness
All you need is a really good treatment then you can just take a 5a reductase inhibitors until hair cloning comes out
(If hair cloning ever come out) forgot to type that lol 🙂
That a boy woofy! 🙂 Cloning or something of that ilk will most probably come out. When is the $100K question, could be next year or could be in 20, at this point in time we just don’t know.
Would it not be fair to say that it looks like Tsuji will solve hair cloning in principle within this decade. However, it will take another 5-10 years after solving it for any “normal” person to benefit from it or am I being overly pessimistic? I would love nothing more than it to be sooner as I’m 22 and suffering hair loss but from working in a big pharma company I can appreciate the time any ground breaking treatment will take. I just can’t understand why some people are getting overly excited from something they believe they will be able to afford in 4 years time, am I missing something?
paul_ire you wanna know why the united states and EU won’t start trials for hair cloning or there hasn’t been a new treatment in 23 years since i was born its because of big pharma merck and other finasteride makers and lobbyist’s. our only hope is tsuji
What about Stemson therapeutics?
That conspiracy theory doesn’t really pan out woofy, there’s plenty of millionaires and billionaires that would trial cloning if they thought it would work and be happy to make money on it.
100% Admin… hair loss conspiracy theories are another one of Yoda’s pet peeves. Like there’s a cabal stopping hair loss treatments, really? It boils down to if solving hair loss was that easy everyone would be in the game. The only solutions we have now were found by accident.
Yoda it is not the year 2000 today we are much closer to solving the problem of baldness, which in my opinion will be overcome in the 21st century and there are many indications that it will be so. honestly? It won’t be in 5 years because the treatment has to be refined, but I hope that in 20 years we will all have lush hair, some will lose their youth, but what can we do? this is life, we were born too early for this wonderful breakthrough treatment and we have to accept it. Woofy in 5 years, we cant imagine mass hair cloning available in every country
Admin that is true
in 4 years it may only be available to the rich and only in Japan, I can wait 20 years for a head full of hair, it will never be too late, even at the age of 100
Woofy hair cloning is a real cure
Al.budny “Woofy in 5 years, we cant imagine mass hair cloning available in every country” I never said that, you’re putting words in my mouth.
ok, i know that You didint say that, but in 5 years wewill not able to have our hair back, imo for average joe it is 10-15 years away
Woofy and Al Bundy, you guys slay me…get a room you too! 😉
Yoda lol ?
Here’s my opinion. I updated my views a bit. I still believe Tsuji will finish 2024. This assumes, there was zero complications with direction, thickness, color, rejection, etc. Here’s how I think this plays out. They’ll file and likely get confirmation to begin trials by January at the latest. They’ve been saying 2020 for implementation every 4 months the last 10 years. 3-4 years is a pretty decent trial. The first year will probably include 15 test subjects. If everything works out, they’ll enroll another 100 in year two to determine if the treatment works on people from all skin types to all age brackets. If there’s an issue it’s most likely they’ll run a phase 3 and extend completion to 2027. A lot of people on here are concerned about timing. I’m concerned about hair quality. Yes it will work, ill tell you that, but does the hair look normal. That’s probably the hardest obstacle now.
Jake if the hair looks unsightly who needs it? So what is the problem if they can choose the color and thickness? I have a question for you – will it be possible to get hair thicker than the original hair that grows on the head?
jake is a joke right? 7 years for what to prove to be human? when you know very well that if cloning works, you only need 6 months – 1 year …. now you say 7 years … before you said 4 years … come on
I said 4, but I said if there’s an ISSUE, it will be extended. to another trial. You really didn’t read my whole statement did you.
I would be very happy if it only took them 7 years, fortunately there are people who want to deal with the problem of baldness, many thanks to them and the admin for the information about the progress 🙂
Romi do you really think they can get a full head of hair on the first try? I don’t believe there is any logical mind that thinks cloning will be available in 4 years … I believe they will succeed, but it will be a long way of trial and error until they come to results that can be applied to humans. for $ 400k, I want a solution that is worth the money
al.budny 400k? get better informed !! but why do you shoot numbers? when there is no news yet !!
ok 350k$ for a head full of hair
This is stupid why can’t hair cloning just skip FDA clinical trials this will take another decade I don’t want to wait any longer I want my hair back right now! And a hair transplant will look great in the beginning but it will be a disaster for me down the road. Can these researchers just clone my hair and a hair transplant doctor just does the transplant for me I’m desperate now, it’s been like 5 god damn years of waiting! I’ll be a test subject and I don’t give a damn about the risks lol you have to take risks in life or you will never get what you want, listen I just don’t want to be bald and Finasteride is great but doesn’t give me a full head of hair! If you’re a hair researcher hurry the hell up please! Sorry but I’m angry
Woofy, why don’t you do hair cloning yourself? you probably would be faster than Dr. Tsuji and all the rest. The truth is that these doctors are in no hurry because it is not an urgent matter, baldness is not a death sentence, such as cancer, as it will be available on your 40th birthday, you should jump with happiness
Ai because I’m not a scientist…. they either need to start trials or stop hyping it up. Baldness is cancer of the soul
having a bald head is not cool, but let’s be serious, it’s not a fatal disease, I would also like the cure to be in 4 years, but knowing life will take 20 years
Al budny speak for you 20 years !! and stop saying different figures every time !!! that here there are people reading .. the problem that no one knows yet year and prices!
It’s okay, romi. You know that it will not take 20 yrs for a baldness cure, try not to let it get to you.
after all, this is a new technology that is still underdeveloped, and we do not even know whether it is effective, because it may turn out that it will give a few more hair and not the lush hair that everyone dreams of here, I do not believe that in 5 years they will be able to refine it to perfection, there is no such option with today’s speed of research
Admin does not want to be perceived as a troll, but in my opinion 5 years is too short for effective baldness treatment to be available on the market, we do not have a single positive case in people that it works
No 4 years is really reasonable. Each trial is usually 2 years. I think they’ll need 2 trials at a MINIMUM. The first will be for safety. The second will be for efficacy. But if the quality of hair doesn’t translate they may perform a third trial aimed at quality of hair. I see them focussing on three phases. 1.) Safety/rejection. 2.) Efficacy(density) 3.) quality(color, curve, pattern, shape, thickness), etc. I think quality is gonna be the biggest struggle. Mainly hair pattern because hair pattern is determined from surrounding muscles during the fetal period not the follicle root. It’s gonna be interesting
I’ve always felt Tsuji’s timeline was ambitious – primarily because of safety. If by pattern you mean texture (straight, curly) then I think that’s determined by follicle shape which is genetic. I assume they’ve already tested that in vitro? Are there any muscles other than arrector pili? As for price, I don’t think there are really all that many willing to pay $300k. I see many bald guys that could get great coverage from a HT, yet don’t. I’m also not sure how many grafts per square cm Tsuji had in mind when gave that estimate.
Jake it’s true, but you make the assumption that everything works out the first time, and it’s unlikely, and there’s no guarantee that this hair won’t fall out after a year, it’s a long way to go and I’m 200% sure it’ll take it 10+ years, we can bet
Follicle thought, Dr Rassman posted a update on the hair loss treatment he’s working on with Dr plikus the update is on Reddit.
Thank you Woofy, I’ve just covered this on the Updates page and hope to have more to share soon.
You’re welcome ?
Follicle thought not sure if I asked you this question, but when do you think stemson therapeutics will start human trials like sometime next year? Now that they have 7.5mill
The money will certainly be helpful, I think it could be possible in Q3 2021 – H2 2022 is.
I thought this was cloning technology now it appears to be a simple compound? @folliclethought, has this changed ? Tsuji always gave impression that his work was cloning not compound or drug based?
Hi Matt, Tsuji expanded upon his research to do some simple drug testing and has identified a compound which could be useful as a drug. It’s not clear if the compound will ever be commercialized.
Weren’t they saying commercialization in 2020 for the longest time….?
Yes, but that was long ago, H. When trials did not begin publicly in 2019 I was sure there was no chance of commercialization in 2020.
I believe in Tsuji, imp he and his team are working on real cure, i dont reluy on stemson or tissuse
Correct me if I’m wrong and I’m not hating on stemson I like that they want to help us but I read that there approach is to get the stem cells from your blood and make the hairs if that’s the case then it’s not a cure because they are not getting the hairs from the permanent safe donor area.
I’m not sure if that’s a validated viewpoint Woofy. I have not heard them comment on that situation but I’d be willing to bet that concept is on their radar and there may be alternate ways to address it.
Allergen, the people who invested in stemson and are the makers of botox, literally said 3 years ago, they’ll invest 1 billion dollars if a company comes out with a cure. Now finding a cure is easy said than done. I did the math, if 2 million people paid 300,000 dollars each, organ technologies would make 6 trillion dollars. The money is huge, and combing through these message boards I can guarantee you there are 2 million people willing to pay 200-300k for a cure. Think of all the influencers that make money from their “image”. Even female pattern baldness is on the rise. I really do believe they nailed 60% of all the issues. I was reading an article and they said an issue they haven’t overcome 2 years ago was getting the follicle to connect to the surrounding nervous system. I think this procedure is only gonna be out the next 10 years for the rich, simply because of supply and demand. For example a computer processor manufacturing plant costs 20 billion dollars to make. Thats why the US doesn’t have many of them, its too expensive to build a plant from scratch. How much do you think a micron level hair multiplication plant is gonna cost. It’s much easier to make a lot of money from a couple million people than trying to spend 200 billion on a manufacturing facility trying to support 200 million people. In my humble opinion, as a researcher, I think mid 2030’s for it to be a 20k level injection. Their patents are set to expire in 2031 so. they basically have a monopoly from now until then. It’s gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. Alot of people think its not fair, tell that to the people in early 1990’s when computers where 30,000 dollars. To sum this all up, its much easier to believe its gonna come out for the ultra rich and famous than to believe this cure is gonna come out and be scaled to hundreds of millions of people in 3 years. it’s virtually impossible to do that. Even pharmaceutical companies can’t do stuff like that scaling up drug manufacturing.
Sorry typo, This procedure is gonna be out from 2024 -2034 for the ultra rich(the next 10 years)
It’s already 2021 now. Anything new update on progress to be seen this year?
JR
Boa noite , mesmo depois de tanto tempo de pesquisa não chegaram a nenhum resultado concreto.
Se já tem resultados qual seria e seus custos hoje.
Desde já agredeço.